Alliance Offers New Vision for National Certification - massage and bodywork professionals2024-03-29T01:21:13Zhttps://massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/alliance-offers-new-vision-for?xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHmm...Interesting...Well I'm…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-08:2887274:Comment:1618442011-05-08T15:06:10.117ZGordon J. Wallishttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/GordonJWallis
Hmm...Interesting...Well I'm licensed in Hawaii which accepts no other exams but their own. I remember I had to have ,.. I cant remember now, a certain number of hours of anatomy and physiology and so on. As well as knowing the local laws and regulations as it pertains to massage..Then you had to serve an apprenticeship under a therapist that has owned their own business for at least three years..I remember doing that for seven months before taking the state boards. There was a written exam.…
Hmm...Interesting...Well I'm licensed in Hawaii which accepts no other exams but their own. I remember I had to have ,.. I cant remember now, a certain number of hours of anatomy and physiology and so on. As well as knowing the local laws and regulations as it pertains to massage..Then you had to serve an apprenticeship under a therapist that has owned their own business for at least three years..I remember doing that for seven months before taking the state boards. There was a written exam. Then you had to massage five people..Once you passed that..You received a license. They have no continuing educational requirements after that. And now I live in Alaska, that has no state board or licensing. If you want to practice in Anchorage, they want to see 500 or so hours of schooling before they issue you a license to work as a massage therapist. So as a result, I never bothered to take any other certification exams. Ive made good money doing massage and am well known....So the other day I took a pretend National exam and flunked it? lol.. But Ive been doing this work for 26 years! And I study all the time. Not for any kind of exam obviously. lol When I look over all this licensing material... I shake my head.. I actually see very little correlation as too the questions asked and actual massage work? In Hawaii I worked ten years in both a medical clinic and chiropractic office billing insurance companies as an independent contractor..Making a good living mostly on referrals from MDs and Chiroprators .. Then I lived and worked in New Zealand for two years with Japanese tourists because I was originally trained as a Shiatsu therapist. I remember being extremely stressed out about taking the Hawaii state boards because I apprenticed with a traditional Shiatsu therapist(an old Japanese guy similar to Mr.Miyogi on the Karate Kid movies)..We worked on a floored futon and with no oils..But in the practical exam I had to massage people that were on tables and unclothed , as well as use oil..Wowa..! It was like taking an exam for something you've never done before, Not fun....Anyway now here in Alaska Ive worked in a very nice day spa for 14 years or so....I'm by far a way more competent therapist then I was twenty-six years ago. I can see now for me, if I want to work in another state..Its going to be an exercise in short term memorization in order to get a license. Because obviously these tests have nothing to do with the work Ive been doing as a professional massage therapist for the last 26 years...There is very little correlation. I look over the material to study...and I fall a sleep. I feel like I might as well study for a test in optical physics or something? lol...Well Sunday is a busy work day for me...I will leave all this licensing stuff up to you guys..All I hope is that you dont make it worse then it already is.. Oh I suggest a grandfathering clause that says you can work anywhere in the USA if you've been a therapist for over 25 years..Yea, thats a good idea.. I suggest that..lol K, time to get ready for work... Earlier this year, I attended…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-08:2887274:Comment:1616462011-05-08T11:05:06.319ZLaura Allenhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/LauraAllen
<p>Earlier this year, I attended the annual meeting of FARB (Federation of Associations of Regulatory Boards) of which the FSMTB and my state board in NC are members. Every licensed occupation you can think of was there....funeral directors, social workers, MDs, nurses, lawyers, cosmetologists, PTs, chiropractors, educators, etc. A cross-section of presenters from the different fields talked about their issues and there was plenty of time for questions and answers and comments from the…</p>
<p>Earlier this year, I attended the annual meeting of FARB (Federation of Associations of Regulatory Boards) of which the FSMTB and my state board in NC are members. Every licensed occupation you can think of was there....funeral directors, social workers, MDs, nurses, lawyers, cosmetologists, PTs, chiropractors, educators, etc. A cross-section of presenters from the different fields talked about their issues and there was plenty of time for questions and answers and comments from the attendees.</p>
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<p>And guess what--they ALL have the same problems, regardless of their profession, or what their state and/or national licensing and/or certification system is: licensees violating their codes of ethics, issues with continuing education, issues with entry-level education, exams that have been compromised, exam questions that are inappropriate, boards that can't support themselves or that are very inefficient, people who are inappropriate for the field being let into educational programs and then applying to get a license and in some cases getting one because the states don't do criminal record checks, schools that are nothing but diploma mills, and the list just keeps on going. Massage is not unique in the aspect that the waters are muddy, there are a lot of problems, and there's no one easy fix. That was very apparent.</p>
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<p> </p> Japan has a three year educat…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-08:2887274:Comment:1615722011-05-08T10:32:03.401ZDaniel Cohenhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/DanielCohen
<p>Japan has a three year education system for Shiatsu as does China for Acupressure/Tuina. They both have national licensing but they also have exceptions like foot massage. They are regarded as forms of traditional medicine along with acupuncture and traditional bone setting. In China Energyworkers (Qi Gong Masters) are also nationally certified and tested. As far as spa massage in either country, I am unaware of the requirements. They have a very different licensing history of protecting…</p>
<p>Japan has a three year education system for Shiatsu as does China for Acupressure/Tuina. They both have national licensing but they also have exceptions like foot massage. They are regarded as forms of traditional medicine along with acupuncture and traditional bone setting. In China Energyworkers (Qi Gong Masters) are also nationally certified and tested. As far as spa massage in either country, I am unaware of the requirements. They have a very different licensing history of protecting traditional medicine. Originally massage in japan was an occupation for the blind, licensing developed to protect their employment. Shiatsu had to present scientific evidence in order to be licensed under the occupation forces. It was the first Japanese "traditional" medicine reinstated because it could provide evidence based on Chiropractic knowledge. Korea held up licensing massage to protect the blind practitioners. Aside from these that do the lengthy study, I have been told that practitioners of massage in both china and japan are often unlicensed and trained by the owner of the business they work for. I have seen Swedish massage employment ads saying no experience needed will train in Tokyo. This is also the system followed by Chinese owned foot massage (only a name since all offer full body) here in California.</p>
<p>Gordon since many try out massage and a large percentage do it unlicensed, I wonder if the work life figures are accurate. I know many therapists who have been doing massage longer than my 12 years (actually a large number exceeding 20 years who never licensed and don't want to take the schooling needed now). When I started the "work life" was 5 years. A few years ago it had increased to 8. Perhaps the recession has caused the drop back. Personally I only know of one that left because of carpal tunnel. The main modality (Korean Martial Therapy) I do includes plenty of self therapy techniques.</p>
<p>If we don't hear from anyone in Japan about this, I could ask friends for more detail.</p> We all know the problem of li…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-08:2887274:Comment:1615712011-05-08T07:20:40.929ZGordon J. Wallishttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/GordonJWallis
We all know the problem of licensing is... how huge and encompassing the field of massage is. You can look at it from a physical therapy perspective, a Chinese medicine perspective, a metaphysical perspective, a naturalpathic perspective, a quantum mechanic perspective, a cultural perspective, a neurologic perspective, a chiropractic perspective, a spa perspective and so on and on and on, and any division of or combination of the above perspective...So how do you write or create a fair license…
We all know the problem of licensing is... how huge and encompassing the field of massage is. You can look at it from a physical therapy perspective, a Chinese medicine perspective, a metaphysical perspective, a naturalpathic perspective, a quantum mechanic perspective, a cultural perspective, a neurologic perspective, a chiropractic perspective, a spa perspective and so on and on and on, and any division of or combination of the above perspective...So how do you write or create a fair license exam or program that all can agree on? Its quite the task... ..On top of everything you have to deal with state governments and budget problems. And the state of Hawaii, where I got my license...doesnt except any license or certification but their own, period. My concerns have been stated. The ever shortening career span is a symptom that the patient is sick.. I'm for simplification, not complication. Say, an idea just popped in my head.. Japan must license massage therapy with their shiatsu and all that? How do they handle massage licensing? Surly they deal with the same issues and problems? Again Laura I am right on the…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-08:2887274:Comment:1612662011-05-08T03:24:50.568ZSandy Fritzhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/SandyFritz
Again Laura I am right on the same page with you. I enjoyed your comments on the number of reviewers, editor and reads and rereads on textbooks and then wham- a mistake. I have written hundreds and probably thousands of test questions and I personally do not believe that written exam are the most effective tool for measuring competency = but it is what we have, I don't see any change soon so teacher and authors like Laura and myself really work hard to provide tools to help individuals pass…
Again Laura I am right on the same page with you. I enjoyed your comments on the number of reviewers, editor and reads and rereads on textbooks and then wham- a mistake. I have written hundreds and probably thousands of test questions and I personally do not believe that written exam are the most effective tool for measuring competency = but it is what we have, I don't see any change soon so teacher and authors like Laura and myself really work hard to provide tools to help individuals pass those exams. I have dyslexia and the b and d aspect of multiple choice exams literally make me sick. However- again it is the credentialing process so we need to provide support for the effective development and delivery of these licensing exams and voluntary certification exams. <br/>
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<cite>Laura Allen said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/alliance-offers-new-vision-for?xg_source=activity#2887274Comment161255"><div><p>Congratulations on helping your client, Gordon, and as you say, we've all had those experiences.</p>
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<p>If you're in a state that has licensure, I presume you've already taken your test and won't have to take another one. Any advanced credentialing tests that roll out will be strictly voluntary. You won't have to take one unless you choose to.</p>
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<p>The Federation just recently held an item-writing meeting. That's been a common practice at the NCBTMB since it's inception; one of my friends is doing the same with their item-writing committee right now. It has long been the practice that when you test there are some questions not counted towards your grade because they are being floated out there and tested for validity, etc. I think most testing organizations have similar practices.</p>
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<p>Test questions are written by human beings and thus not infallible. Sandy Fritz has been an author for many years, and I'm sure she can testify, as can I, that in spite of numerous editors and reviewers working on our books, mistakes still happen. My first book was reviewed by 7 subject matter experts before going to print, and the very first day it came off the press, I noticed a glaring mistake. It happens.Both the Federation and the NCB use Pearson Vue as their test administrators. As long as humans write the tests, and humans enter them into the testing software, the potential for a mistake is always going to be there. That's why both organizations have periodic reviews.</p>
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<p>I agree that testing does not mean one is going to be a good massage therapist. I tutor students and teach classes to prepare them for both tests. Some talented therapists have failed the exams. There are also people who can stroll in and pass any exam that will never be a good therapist; they just happen to be good test takers. Regardless of whether it's the MBLEx or the NCB exams, requiring a test is currently the only tool we have to measure competency.</p>
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</blockquote> @Emmanuel, mosquitoes get my…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-07:2887274:Comment:1618262011-05-07T20:00:29.267ZLaura Allenhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/LauraAllen
<p>@Emmanuel, mosquitoes get my attention in a heartbeat! Or a bite...:) I agree that a professional facilitator would be a great thing for any discussion between the organizations. I was very impressed with Drew Lebby, the man who facilitated the meeting last week. He was impartial, humorous, kept things moving at a good pace, and there was nary a minute of ill will. That's important, that people can express opinions and the facilitator remain non-judgmental and keep things on track. He did a…</p>
<p>@Emmanuel, mosquitoes get my attention in a heartbeat! Or a bite...:) I agree that a professional facilitator would be a great thing for any discussion between the organizations. I was very impressed with Drew Lebby, the man who facilitated the meeting last week. He was impartial, humorous, kept things moving at a good pace, and there was nary a minute of ill will. That's important, that people can express opinions and the facilitator remain non-judgmental and keep things on track. He did a great job.</p>
<p> </p> Just like last week with a di…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-07:2887274:Comment:1615602011-05-07T19:22:08.584ZEmmanuel Bistashttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/EmmanuelBistas
Just like last week with a different topic :)<br></br>
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<cite>Sandy Fritz said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/alliance-offers-new-vision-for?page=2&commentId=2887274%3AComment%3A161554&x=1#2887274Comment161554"><div>I agree and would hope that soon all would come together and figure that out. Wouldn't it be wonderful for all of the organizations serving massage to come together with a professional facilitator and do just this. Hey…</div>
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Just like last week with a different topic :)<br/>
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<cite>Sandy Fritz said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/alliance-offers-new-vision-for?page=2&commentId=2887274%3AComment%3A161554&x=1#2887274Comment161554"><div>I agree and would hope that soon all would come together and figure that out. Wouldn't it be wonderful for all of the organizations serving massage to come together with a professional facilitator and do just this. Hey what a good idea--<br/> <br/>
<cite>Emmanuel Bistas said:</cite><br/>
<blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/alliance-offers-new-vision-for?commentId=2887274%3AComment%3A161637#2887274Comment161548"><div><p>Sandy, I think one of the problems is that there has not been a comprehensive blueprint for how the entire profession could be organized. The first such comprehensive blueprint that I .......</p>
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</blockquote> I agree and would hope tha…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-07:2887274:Comment:1615542011-05-07T18:23:47.000ZSandy Fritzhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/SandyFritz
I agree and would hope that soon all would come together and figure that out. Wouldn't it be wonderful for all of the organizations serving massage to come together with a professional facilitator and do just this. Hey what a good idea--<br></br>
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<cite>Emmanuel Bistas said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/alliance-offers-new-vision-for?commentId=2887274%3AComment%3A161637#2887274Comment161548"><div><p>Sandy, I think one of the problems is…</p>
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I agree and would hope that soon all would come together and figure that out. Wouldn't it be wonderful for all of the organizations serving massage to come together with a professional facilitator and do just this. Hey what a good idea--<br/>
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<cite>Emmanuel Bistas said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/alliance-offers-new-vision-for?commentId=2887274%3AComment%3A161637#2887274Comment161548"><div><p>Sandy, I think one of the problems is that there has not been a comprehensive blueprint for how the entire profession could be organized. The first such comprehensive blueprint that I have seen was Rick Rosen's white-paper titled "massage as a profession". Who builds a house without a blueprint? AMTA, NCBTMB, COMTA, ABMP have had their missions, and they all want to help therapists and advance the profession, but they all come from different places and approach the profession from different angles. </p>
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<p>The white paper could have been titled "the massage profession, organized". It defined a structure and organizations that would support this structure. One of the characteristics of a profession is self-regulation, and having that structure and organizations in place we can move toward that. Once the solid structure in place, we can also move to discussions such as number of hours, quality of instruction, place of energy work, etc. I have not seen many people commenting on the original white paper, personally I think it describes a vision that could work well. </p>
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<p>Based on what Rick wrote above, this position statement flows from a proposal to NCBTMB which flowed from that initial white paper. I think it is important to see the position statement in that light, because then it becomes obvious that it is not anti-NCBTMB but it rather places NCBTMB at a place where it upholds a national standard in the field. </p>
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<p>@ Laura, indeed this is a discussion that needs to happen with NCBTMB, but sometimes things are not received as you intend when you approach an organization. I learned my lesson the hard way when MBLEx was first introduced and I sent a proposal via certified mail to the licensing board and drove 4 hours to Springfield to make my case. If I were a mosquito I would have drawn more attention. I can totally see how one can write a thesis that sits on the recipient’s window sill, or having what you think is a a serious conversation that is perceived as casual chat. The position statement has the potential to not only start a discussion, but also to impress upon readers a vision for how the profession could be organized. </p>
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<p>I think if we all agree on a common structure and a role for each organization, we can start talking about the specifics and draw support for that happen. Personally, I would never expect NCBTMB to give up a chunk of its business and reposition itself without receiving support from other organizations. The question is what NCBTMB thinks about the position paper. If the support were there, financial or otherwise, is the vision described in this position statement something that can create value to the profession?</p>
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<cite>Sandy Fritz said:</cite><br/>
<blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/alliance-offers-new-vision-for?page=1&commentId=2887274%3AComment%3A161260&x=1#2887274Comment161614"><div>Do you think we will ever get it Laura. I been around a long time- 30 years - Do you have any insight on why the massage profession just can't quite get it together?</div>
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</blockquote> Very well written Laura a…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-07:2887274:Comment:1616372011-05-07T18:17:57.163ZSandy Fritzhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/SandyFritz
Very well written Laura and insightful. Keep advocating for cooperation.
Very well written Laura and insightful. Keep advocating for cooperation. Daniel, Im in total agreement…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2011-05-07:2887274:Comment:1618242011-05-07T18:06:24.439ZGordon J. Wallishttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/GordonJWallis
<p>Daniel, Im in total agreement with you..You said it right on! Who does the changing actually benefit? What are the problems perceived that require change? I have a few suggestions, but Im fine if it stays as is.. Someone must be making money out of it somehow? And Daniel, Im sorry, there must be some misunderstanding...There is nothing wrong with starting out part time, then moving on to full time...That makes perfect sense...I often suggest that approach to other therapists..Its very…</p>
<p>Daniel, Im in total agreement with you..You said it right on! Who does the changing actually benefit? What are the problems perceived that require change? I have a few suggestions, but Im fine if it stays as is.. Someone must be making money out of it somehow? And Daniel, Im sorry, there must be some misunderstanding...There is nothing wrong with starting out part time, then moving on to full time...That makes perfect sense...I often suggest that approach to other therapists..Its very smart...What I meant by short career span was the fact that a large percentage of therapists have to quit because of repetitive stress injuries..And thats unnecessary. Because the best therapy for repetitive stress injuries is massage..As a matter of fact I know therapists that have treated clients for carpal tunnel. But when they got it themselves, they ran to the doctor? lol And thats because of the current emphasis on the accumulation of intellectual information instead of REAL KNOWLEDGE.. And I remember now..In Hawaii, when I got my license..I did have to serve an apprenticeship. It lasted six or seven months...I had to work under the thumb of a licensed massage therapist that owned their own business before taking the state exam.....And then I had to actually massage people to get my license.....Anyway Daniel..I want you to know I totally agree with you and what you are doing. I was very glad to read your post..Now I know Im not the only crazy one in here? lol Yea..someone tell me who will benefit from any change in the current certification system we have now? Who is the beneficiary?????</p>
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