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We need some input for our Round the Table column in the next issue of Massage & Bodywork magazine. Reply with your answers and you just might see it printed in the next issue!

 

 

The question this time is:

As a massage therapist, what are some of your professional pet peeves? 

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http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. 

Daniel Cohen said:

Gordon you bring up one of my fears for Massage Therapy. The medical field has concentrated on specialization. Not only seperating specialization but seperating parts of the body. One of the things I like so much about massage is the holistic approach. By following other health care professions too closely I worry we will also become specialized at the expense of the patient.

I have often had an opposite experience. I often get involved in the treatment of Workers' Compensation Insurance patients. I often see that the person is not recovering as they should. By massage palpation and oscillation I have found problems not immediate to the pain. I will suggest to the patient that the next time they see the specialist to tell them it hurts in this spot. Usually the Doctor will then expand the area for medical treatment and recovery comes quickly.

800 years ago Maimonides, the great medieval physician, warned against treating only part of the individual and even trying to separate mind, body, and soul.

 

We have much to offer as a holistic model for the medical professions. We must remain true to our profession and as the truth is realized we will have our place. We will also bring great change to others.

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I understand what you are saying Boris.  I just think massage therapists graduate from these schools thinking that no matter what they do, they dont have the ability to help a client(patient) like other health care providers can...I had an example yesterday...A client came in who was a runner... She had nagging left hip pain that would start after she was well into her running workouts....She went to another type of health care provider that said it was because of her tensor facia latae was too tight...because the pain would run down the side of her leg.. Now that other type of health care provider had massage therapists working for him....So when those therapists got the diagnosis they proceeded to work and stretch out  her tensor faciae latae.   After about three sessions with those people she quit seeing them because there was no change at all in her symptoms...Somehow she came to see me a couple days ago...I checked her tensor faciae latae and  found nothing wrong with it...However I did palpate a trigger point in her glutius minimus and piriformis .. I released those trigger points...I saw her on a follow up yesterday...She was very happy...Her symptoms were gone...and she was very happy...She just came in because I suggested she come in for a follow up a couple days later... My point is.. the other therapists were told that it was her tensor facia latae so all they did was work on a healthy muscle.. After all they are only massage therapists, and if the doctor says its the facia latae, it must be.  They are conditioned in school that they are inferior.

That is why my regular routine covers all those muscles and my regulars come as soon as they recognize the beginning tightness. They don't want it to get to that and they know I will prevent it. Currently 90% of my business is return clients. They trust me with their bodies which I regard as a high honor.



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. 

Daniel Cohen said:

Gordon you bring up one of my fears for Massage Therapy. The medical field has concentrated on specialization. Not only seperating specialization but seperating parts of the body. One of the things I like so much about massage is the holistic approach. By following other health care professions too closely I worry we will also become specialized at the expense of the patient.

I have often had an opposite experience. I often get involved in the treatment of Workers' Compensation Insurance patients. I often see that the person is not recovering as they should. By massage palpation and oscillation I have found problems not immediate to the pain. I will suggest to the patient that the next time they see the specialist to tell them it hurts in this spot. Usually the Doctor will then expand the area for medical treatment and recovery comes quickly.

800 years ago Maimonides, the great medieval physician, warned against treating only part of the individual and even trying to separate mind, body, and soul.

 

We have much to offer as a holistic model for the medical professions. We must remain true to our profession and as the truth is realized we will have our place. We will also bring great change to others.

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I understand what you are saying Boris.  I just think massage therapists graduate from these schools thinking that no matter what they do, they dont have the ability to help a client(patient) like other health care providers can...I had an example yesterday...A client came in who was a runner... She had nagging left hip pain that would start after she was well into her running workouts....She went to another type of health care provider that said it was because of her tensor facia latae was too tight...because the pain would run down the side of her leg.. Now that other type of health care provider had massage therapists working for him....So when those therapists got the diagnosis they proceeded to work and stretch out  her tensor faciae latae.   After about three sessions with those people she quit seeing them because there was no change at all in her symptoms...Somehow she came to see me a couple days ago...I checked her tensor faciae latae and  found nothing wrong with it...However I did palpate a trigger point in her glutius minimus and piriformis .. I released those trigger points...I saw her on a follow up yesterday...She was very happy...Her symptoms were gone...and she was very happy...She just came in because I suggested she come in for a follow up a couple days later... My point is.. the other therapists were told that it was her tensor facia latae so all they did was work on a healthy muscle.. After all they are only massage therapists, and if the doctor says its the facia latae, it must be.  They are conditioned in school that they are inferior.

Yea you are right Daniel....You dont really need to know all the TP pain patterns...If you cover all the the muscles durring your massage, you will come accross sore areas and treat them accordingly...  But those therapists blindly followed the treatment plan...hmm....interesting...  When the patient tells me their diagnosis..I think, well maybe, but probubly not...
Daniel Cohen said:

That is why my regular routine covers all those muscles and my regulars come as soon as they recognize the beginning tightness. They don't want it to get to that and they know I will prevent it. Currently 90% of my business is return clients. They trust me with their bodies which I regard as a high honor.



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. 

Daniel Cohen said:

Gordon you bring up one of my fears for Massage Therapy. The medical field has concentrated on specialization. Not only seperating specialization but seperating parts of the body. One of the things I like so much about massage is the holistic approach. By following other health care professions too closely I worry we will also become specialized at the expense of the patient.

I have often had an opposite experience. I often get involved in the treatment of Workers' Compensation Insurance patients. I often see that the person is not recovering as they should. By massage palpation and oscillation I have found problems not immediate to the pain. I will suggest to the patient that the next time they see the specialist to tell them it hurts in this spot. Usually the Doctor will then expand the area for medical treatment and recovery comes quickly.

800 years ago Maimonides, the great medieval physician, warned against treating only part of the individual and even trying to separate mind, body, and soul.

 

We have much to offer as a holistic model for the medical professions. We must remain true to our profession and as the truth is realized we will have our place. We will also bring great change to others.

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I understand what you are saying Boris.  I just think massage therapists graduate from these schools thinking that no matter what they do, they dont have the ability to help a client(patient) like other health care providers can...I had an example yesterday...A client came in who was a runner... She had nagging left hip pain that would start after she was well into her running workouts....She went to another type of health care provider that said it was because of her tensor facia latae was too tight...because the pain would run down the side of her leg.. Now that other type of health care provider had massage therapists working for him....So when those therapists got the diagnosis they proceeded to work and stretch out  her tensor faciae latae.   After about three sessions with those people she quit seeing them because there was no change at all in her symptoms...Somehow she came to see me a couple days ago...I checked her tensor faciae latae and  found nothing wrong with it...However I did palpate a trigger point in her glutius minimus and piriformis .. I released those trigger points...I saw her on a follow up yesterday...She was very happy...Her symptoms were gone...and she was very happy...She just came in because I suggested she come in for a follow up a couple days later... My point is.. the other therapists were told that it was her tensor facia latae so all they did was work on a healthy muscle.. After all they are only massage therapists, and if the doctor says its the facia latae, it must be.  They are conditioned in school that they are inferior.

Gordon. In order to present case, will be beneficial if you will propose trigger points definition, including morphology. I believe in such a case it will be much more constructive discussion. By saying:” I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points.”

You are not sharing the knowledge, but if you will explain, then maybe possible  members will know.

Also please understand, that at the time of orthopedic massage procedure, one shouldn't single out some particular muscles, but have to investigate all painful region. And special, when one addressing sports and other trauma inflicted  injuries .No doubt, that according to symptoms, as well at the time of hands examinations,we possible will discover/come to a conclusion about some specific muscles syndrome,it will be obvious. in such a case of course we will address it, by  designed protocols. In cases of TLS patients complain of pain at lateral surface of the iliac crest, and the symptoms cannot be confused with symptoms of sciatica.

Best wishes.

Boris



Daniel Cohen said:

That is why my regular routine covers all those muscles and my regulars come as soon as they recognize the beginning tightness. They don't want it to get to that and they know I will prevent it. Currently 90% of my business is return clients. They trust me with their bodies which I regard as a high honor.



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. 

Daniel Cohen said:

Gordon you bring up one of my fears for Massage Therapy. The medical field has concentrated on specialization. Not only seperating specialization but seperating parts of the body. One of the things I like so much about massage is the holistic approach. By following other health care professions too closely I worry we will also become specialized at the expense of the patient.

I have often had an opposite experience. I often get involved in the treatment of Workers' Compensation Insurance patients. I often see that the person is not recovering as they should. By massage palpation and oscillation I have found problems not immediate to the pain. I will suggest to the patient that the next time they see the specialist to tell them it hurts in this spot. Usually the Doctor will then expand the area for medical treatment and recovery comes quickly.

800 years ago Maimonides, the great medieval physician, warned against treating only part of the individual and even trying to separate mind, body, and soul.

 

We have much to offer as a holistic model for the medical professions. We must remain true to our profession and as the truth is realized we will have our place. We will also bring great change to others.

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I understand what you are saying Boris.  I just think massage therapists graduate from these schools thinking that no matter what they do, they dont have the ability to help a client(patient) like other health care providers can...I had an example yesterday...A client came in who was a runner... She had nagging left hip pain that would start after she was well into her running workouts....She went to another type of health care provider that said it was because of her tensor facia latae was too tight...because the pain would run down the side of her leg.. Now that other type of health care provider had massage therapists working for him....So when those therapists got the diagnosis they proceeded to work and stretch out  her tensor faciae latae.   After about three sessions with those people she quit seeing them because there was no change at all in her symptoms...Somehow she came to see me a couple days ago...I checked her tensor faciae latae and  found nothing wrong with it...However I did palpate a trigger point in her glutius minimus and piriformis .. I released those trigger points...I saw her on a follow up yesterday...She was very happy...Her symptoms were gone...and she was very happy...She just came in because I suggested she come in for a follow up a couple days later... My point is.. the other therapists were told that it was her tensor facia latae so all they did was work on a healthy muscle.. After all they are only massage therapists, and if the doctor says its the facia latae, it must be.  They are conditioned in school that they are inferior.

Gordon. You have to make your mind. You just post it:” http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. “

Link is to article proposing  to address gluteus minimus.

Now few minutes later, you saying:” You dont really need to know all the TP pain patterns...If you cover all the the muscles durring your massage, you will come accross sore areas and treat them accordingly...  But those therapists blindly followed the treatment plan...hmm....interesting...  When the patient tells me their diagnosis..I think, well maybe, but probubly not...”

BTW. Using the opportunity would like to ask you to clarify what do you mean when you are talking about treatment plan?

Best wishes.

Boris



Gordon J. Wallis said:

Yea you are right Daniel....You dont really need to know all the TP pain patterns...If you cover all the the muscles durring your massage, you will come accross sore areas and treat them accordingly...  But those therapists blindly followed the treatment plan...hmm....interesting...  When the patient tells me their diagnosis..I think, well maybe, but probubly not...
Daniel Cohen said:

That is why my regular routine covers all those muscles and my regulars come as soon as they recognize the beginning tightness. They don't want it to get to that and they know I will prevent it. Currently 90% of my business is return clients. They trust me with their bodies which I regard as a high honor.



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. 

Daniel Cohen said:

Gordon you bring up one of my fears for Massage Therapy. The medical field has concentrated on specialization. Not only seperating specialization but seperating parts of the body. One of the things I like so much about massage is the holistic approach. By following other health care professions too closely I worry we will also become specialized at the expense of the patient.

I have often had an opposite experience. I often get involved in the treatment of Workers' Compensation Insurance patients. I often see that the person is not recovering as they should. By massage palpation and oscillation I have found problems not immediate to the pain. I will suggest to the patient that the next time they see the specialist to tell them it hurts in this spot. Usually the Doctor will then expand the area for medical treatment and recovery comes quickly.

800 years ago Maimonides, the great medieval physician, warned against treating only part of the individual and even trying to separate mind, body, and soul.

 

We have much to offer as a holistic model for the medical professions. We must remain true to our profession and as the truth is realized we will have our place. We will also bring great change to others.

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I understand what you are saying Boris.  I just think massage therapists graduate from these schools thinking that no matter what they do, they dont have the ability to help a client(patient) like other health care providers can...I had an example yesterday...A client came in who was a runner... She had nagging left hip pain that would start after she was well into her running workouts....She went to another type of health care provider that said it was because of her tensor facia latae was too tight...because the pain would run down the side of her leg.. Now that other type of health care provider had massage therapists working for him....So when those therapists got the diagnosis they proceeded to work and stretch out  her tensor faciae latae.   After about three sessions with those people she quit seeing them because there was no change at all in her symptoms...Somehow she came to see me a couple days ago...I checked her tensor faciae latae and  found nothing wrong with it...However I did palpate a trigger point in her glutius minimus and piriformis .. I released those trigger points...I saw her on a follow up yesterday...She was very happy...Her symptoms were gone...and she was very happy...She just came in because I suggested she come in for a follow up a couple days later... My point is.. the other therapists were told that it was her tensor facia latae so all they did was work on a healthy muscle.. After all they are only massage therapists, and if the doctor says its the facia latae, it must be.  They are conditioned in school that they are inferior.

My expalantion was clear...not going to get in an argument on the definition of a trigger point...I call them sore spots..and eliminate them.. And just because the TFL area on her leg felt pain, doesnt necessarily mean its the TFL thats causing the problem...I checked her TFL out....I also knew that  gluteus minimus TPs often send pain down the side of the leg..So I checked there.And sure enough..found that she had a very sore spot on that muscle...So I eliminated that sore spot...Now all her presenting symptoms are gone.. Thats good enough for me....she came in on a follow up.. and it was still gone.. Good enough for me...Trigger point definition not needed.   I just call them sore spots..and eliminate them.  Not any more complicated then that.  

Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon. In order to present case, will be beneficial if you will propose trigger points definition, including morphology. I believe in such a case it will be much more constructive discussion. By saying:” I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points.”

You are not sharing the knowledge, but if you will explain, then maybe possible  members will know.

Also please understand, that at the time of orthopedic massage procedure, one shouldn't single out some particular muscles, but have to investigate all painful region. And special, when one addressing sports and other trauma inflicted  injuries .No doubt, that according to symptoms, as well at the time of hands examinations,we possible will discover/come to a conclusion about some specific muscles syndrome,it will be obvious. in such a case of course we will address it, by  designed protocols. In cases of TLS patients complain of pain at lateral surface of the iliac crest, and the symptoms cannot be confused with symptoms of sciatica.

Best wishes.

Boris



Daniel Cohen said:

That is why my regular routine covers all those muscles and my regulars come as soon as they recognize the beginning tightness. They don't want it to get to that and they know I will prevent it. Currently 90% of my business is return clients. They trust me with their bodies which I regard as a high honor.



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. 

Daniel Cohen said:

Gordon you bring up one of my fears for Massage Therapy. The medical field has concentrated on specialization. Not only seperating specialization but seperating parts of the body. One of the things I like so much about massage is the holistic approach. By following other health care professions too closely I worry we will also become specialized at the expense of the patient.

I have often had an opposite experience. I often get involved in the treatment of Workers' Compensation Insurance patients. I often see that the person is not recovering as they should. By massage palpation and oscillation I have found problems not immediate to the pain. I will suggest to the patient that the next time they see the specialist to tell them it hurts in this spot. Usually the Doctor will then expand the area for medical treatment and recovery comes quickly.

800 years ago Maimonides, the great medieval physician, warned against treating only part of the individual and even trying to separate mind, body, and soul.

 

We have much to offer as a holistic model for the medical professions. We must remain true to our profession and as the truth is realized we will have our place. We will also bring great change to others.

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I understand what you are saying Boris.  I just think massage therapists graduate from these schools thinking that no matter what they do, they dont have the ability to help a client(patient) like other health care providers can...I had an example yesterday...A client came in who was a runner... She had nagging left hip pain that would start after she was well into her running workouts....She went to another type of health care provider that said it was because of her tensor facia latae was too tight...because the pain would run down the side of her leg.. Now that other type of health care provider had massage therapists working for him....So when those therapists got the diagnosis they proceeded to work and stretch out  her tensor faciae latae.   After about three sessions with those people she quit seeing them because there was no change at all in her symptoms...Somehow she came to see me a couple days ago...I checked her tensor faciae latae and  found nothing wrong with it...However I did palpate a trigger point in her glutius minimus and piriformis .. I released those trigger points...I saw her on a follow up yesterday...She was very happy...Her symptoms were gone...and she was very happy...She just came in because I suggested she come in for a follow up a couple days later... My point is.. the other therapists were told that it was her tensor facia latae so all they did was work on a healthy muscle.. After all they are only massage therapists, and if the doctor says its the facia latae, it must be.  They are conditioned in school that they are inferior.

okay Gordon. You calling painful spots, trigger points,which is not  really providing explanation to "points".

usually all injured region is a painful spot,as you know it could be  big size painful spot. this painful spots, containing pinpoint localization of pain, which is defined as an trigger points.in any case I am glad we clarified different understanding of what is it trigger point.

this is educational page, and will be nice if you'll clarify meaning of treatment plan. I mean you denying necessity of

following of treatment plans. I believe if we will clarify,this,it will be much easier , to have productive and constructive discussions. hopefully members will be able to learn from it.

Best wishes.

Boris

Gordon J. Wallis said:

My expalantion was clear...not going to get in an argument on the definition of a trigger point...I call them sore spots..and eliminate them.. And just because the TFL area on her leg felt pain, doesnt necessarily mean its the TFL thats causing the problem...I checked her TFL out....I also knew that  gluteus minimus TPs often send pain down the side of the leg..So I checked there.And sure enough..found that she had a very sore spot on that muscle...So I eliminated that sore spot...Now all her presenting symptoms are gone.. Thats good enough for me....she came in on a follow up.. and it was still gone.. Good enough for me...Trigger point definition not needed.   I just call them sore spots..and eliminate them.  Not any more complicated then that.  

Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon. In order to present case, will be beneficial if you will propose trigger points definition, including morphology. I believe in such a case it will be much more constructive discussion. By saying:” I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points.”

You are not sharing the knowledge, but if you will explain, then maybe possible  members will know.

Also please understand, that at the time of orthopedic massage procedure, one shouldn't single out some particular muscles, but have to investigate all painful region. And special, when one addressing sports and other trauma inflicted  injuries .No doubt, that according to symptoms, as well at the time of hands examinations,we possible will discover/come to a conclusion about some specific muscles syndrome,it will be obvious. in such a case of course we will address it, by  designed protocols. In cases of TLS patients complain of pain at lateral surface of the iliac crest, and the symptoms cannot be confused with symptoms of sciatica.

Best wishes.

Boris



Daniel Cohen said:

That is why my regular routine covers all those muscles and my regulars come as soon as they recognize the beginning tightness. They don't want it to get to that and they know I will prevent it. Currently 90% of my business is return clients. They trust me with their bodies which I regard as a high honor.



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. 

Daniel Cohen said:

Gordon you bring up one of my fears for Massage Therapy. The medical field has concentrated on specialization. Not only seperating specialization but seperating parts of the body. One of the things I like so much about massage is the holistic approach. By following other health care professions too closely I worry we will also become specialized at the expense of the patient.

I have often had an opposite experience. I often get involved in the treatment of Workers' Compensation Insurance patients. I often see that the person is not recovering as they should. By massage palpation and oscillation I have found problems not immediate to the pain. I will suggest to the patient that the next time they see the specialist to tell them it hurts in this spot. Usually the Doctor will then expand the area for medical treatment and recovery comes quickly.

800 years ago Maimonides, the great medieval physician, warned against treating only part of the individual and even trying to separate mind, body, and soul.

 

We have much to offer as a holistic model for the medical professions. We must remain true to our profession and as the truth is realized we will have our place. We will also bring great change to others.

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I understand what you are saying Boris.  I just think massage therapists graduate from these schools thinking that no matter what they do, they dont have the ability to help a client(patient) like other health care providers can...I had an example yesterday...A client came in who was a runner... She had nagging left hip pain that would start after she was well into her running workouts....She went to another type of health care provider that said it was because of her tensor facia latae was too tight...because the pain would run down the side of her leg.. Now that other type of health care provider had massage therapists working for him....So when those therapists got the diagnosis they proceeded to work and stretch out  her tensor faciae latae.   After about three sessions with those people she quit seeing them because there was no change at all in her symptoms...Somehow she came to see me a couple days ago...I checked her tensor faciae latae and  found nothing wrong with it...However I did palpate a trigger point in her glutius minimus and piriformis .. I released those trigger points...I saw her on a follow up yesterday...She was very happy...Her symptoms were gone...and she was very happy...She just came in because I suggested she come in for a follow up a couple days later... My point is.. the other therapists were told that it was her tensor facia latae so all they did was work on a healthy muscle.. After all they are only massage therapists, and if the doctor says its the facia latae, it must be.  They are conditioned in school that they are inferior.

My treatment plan is to find sore spots and remove them...I keep it simple... And when Im able to do that.. More often then naught all the clients presenting symptoms vanish....And what I mean by misdiagnosis is, and I saw this the other week.. My client had radiating pain down both arms..  She was told that she had a cervical problem or and fibromylasia(cant spell?).  She was getting no releif after twice a week treatments for three months...I found sore spots on both her infraspinatus muscles.Durring her entire three month treatment, no one noticed those sore spots. Trigger points in that muscle often send pain down the arms..I eliminated those sore spots....and all her radiating arm pain was gone....I just want to point out the importance of trigger points, and how they are often over looked when looking at peoples pain problems.. Thats all....I know all pain is not trigger point pain...Buit thats what I concentrate on, because it is very much overlooked by other health care providers.. Thats all....Thats all Im saying...Not anything more then that..

Boris Prilutsky said:

okay Gordon. You calling painful spots, trigger points,which is not  really providing explanation to "points".

usually all injured region is a painful spot,as you know it could be  big size painful spot. this painful spots, containing pinpoint localization of pain, which is defined as an trigger points.in any case I am glad we clarified different understanding of what is it trigger point.

this is educational page, and will be nice if you'll clarify meaning of treatment plan. I mean you denying necessity of

following of treatment plans. I believe if we will clarify,this,it will be much easier , to have productive and constructive discussions. hopefully members will be able to learn from it.

Best wishes.

Boris

Gordon J. Wallis said:

My expalantion was clear...not going to get in an argument on the definition of a trigger point...I call them sore spots..and eliminate them.. And just because the TFL area on her leg felt pain, doesnt necessarily mean its the TFL thats causing the problem...I checked her TFL out....I also knew that  gluteus minimus TPs often send pain down the side of the leg..So I checked there.And sure enough..found that she had a very sore spot on that muscle...So I eliminated that sore spot...Now all her presenting symptoms are gone.. Thats good enough for me....she came in on a follow up.. and it was still gone.. Good enough for me...Trigger point definition not needed.   I just call them sore spots..and eliminate them.  Not any more complicated then that.  

Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon. In order to present case, will be beneficial if you will propose trigger points definition, including morphology. I believe in such a case it will be much more constructive discussion. By saying:” I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points.”

You are not sharing the knowledge, but if you will explain, then maybe possible  members will know.

Also please understand, that at the time of orthopedic massage procedure, one shouldn't single out some particular muscles, but have to investigate all painful region. And special, when one addressing sports and other trauma inflicted  injuries .No doubt, that according to symptoms, as well at the time of hands examinations,we possible will discover/come to a conclusion about some specific muscles syndrome,it will be obvious. in such a case of course we will address it, by  designed protocols. In cases of TLS patients complain of pain at lateral surface of the iliac crest, and the symptoms cannot be confused with symptoms of sciatica.

Best wishes.

Boris



Daniel Cohen said:

That is why my regular routine covers all those muscles and my regulars come as soon as they recognize the beginning tightness. They don't want it to get to that and they know I will prevent it. Currently 90% of my business is return clients. They trust me with their bodies which I regard as a high honor.



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. 

Daniel Cohen said:

Gordon you bring up one of my fears for Massage Therapy. The medical field has concentrated on specialization. Not only seperating specialization but seperating parts of the body. One of the things I like so much about massage is the holistic approach. By following other health care professions too closely I worry we will also become specialized at the expense of the patient.

I have often had an opposite experience. I often get involved in the treatment of Workers' Compensation Insurance patients. I often see that the person is not recovering as they should. By massage palpation and oscillation I have found problems not immediate to the pain. I will suggest to the patient that the next time they see the specialist to tell them it hurts in this spot. Usually the Doctor will then expand the area for medical treatment and recovery comes quickly.

800 years ago Maimonides, the great medieval physician, warned against treating only part of the individual and even trying to separate mind, body, and soul.

 

We have much to offer as a holistic model for the medical professions. We must remain true to our profession and as the truth is realized we will have our place. We will also bring great change to others.

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I understand what you are saying Boris.  I just think massage therapists graduate from these schools thinking that no matter what they do, they dont have the ability to help a client(patient) like other health care providers can...I had an example yesterday...A client came in who was a runner... She had nagging left hip pain that would start after she was well into her running workouts....She went to another type of health care provider that said it was because of her tensor facia latae was too tight...because the pain would run down the side of her leg.. Now that other type of health care provider had massage therapists working for him....So when those therapists got the diagnosis they proceeded to work and stretch out  her tensor faciae latae.   After about three sessions with those people she quit seeing them because there was no change at all in her symptoms...Somehow she came to see me a couple days ago...I checked her tensor faciae latae and  found nothing wrong with it...However I did palpate a trigger point in her glutius minimus and piriformis .. I released those trigger points...I saw her on a follow up yesterday...She was very happy...Her symptoms were gone...and she was very happy...She just came in because I suggested she come in for a follow up a couple days later... My point is.. the other therapists were told that it was her tensor facia latae so all they did was work on a healthy muscle.. After all they are only massage therapists, and if the doctor says its the facia latae, it must be.  They are conditioned in school that they are inferior.

Gordon. When ones you said something like:” I'm switching gears”I got feelings that you can deliver results. Because switching gears, means to bring your own energy status, to status of healer. Having said this, all description you proposed, is a general talk. Orthopedic massage modalities such as, lymphedema management techniques, trigger point therapy, fascia/muscles mobilization, hot and cold application ,50% of procedure time implementation of petrissage,etc., is much more specific, and simpler than you described. All mentioned modalities, addressing the causes  for symptoms, including pain and dysfunctions. In such a case we keeping it simple, and achieving fast and sustained results. I believe in simple approach to massage therapy, and even did call my book so, but simple, by no means, is a general talk. Soon I will be able to offer footage, where I am demonstrating and explaining mentioned above modalities.

Later on I will address the issue of treatment plans, and will share what I know about it.

Best wishes.

Boris



Gordon J. Wallis said:

My treatment plan is to find sore spots and remove them...I keep it simple... And when Im able to do that.. More often then naught all the clients presenting symptoms vanish....And what I mean by misdiagnosis is, and I saw this the other week.. My client had radiating pain down both arms..  She was told that she had a cervical problem or and fibromylasia(cant spell?).  She was getting no releif after twice a week treatments for three months...I found sore spots on both her infraspinatus muscles.Durring her entire three month treatment, no one noticed those sore spots. Trigger points in that muscle often send pain down the arms..I eliminated those sore spots....and all her radiating arm pain was gone....I just want to point out the importance of trigger points, and how they are often over looked when looking at peoples pain problems.. Thats all....I know all pain is not trigger point pain...Buit thats what I concentrate on, because it is very much overlooked by other health care providers.. Thats all....Thats all Im saying...Not anything more then that..

Boris Prilutsky said:

okay Gordon. You calling painful spots, trigger points,which is not  really providing explanation to "points".

usually all injured region is a painful spot,as you know it could be  big size painful spot. this painful spots, containing pinpoint localization of pain, which is defined as an trigger points.in any case I am glad we clarified different understanding of what is it trigger point.

this is educational page, and will be nice if you'll clarify meaning of treatment plan. I mean you denying necessity of

following of treatment plans. I believe if we will clarify,this,it will be much easier , to have productive and constructive discussions. hopefully members will be able to learn from it.

Best wishes.

Boris

Gordon J. Wallis said:

My expalantion was clear...not going to get in an argument on the definition of a trigger point...I call them sore spots..and eliminate them.. And just because the TFL area on her leg felt pain, doesnt necessarily mean its the TFL thats causing the problem...I checked her TFL out....I also knew that  gluteus minimus TPs often send pain down the side of the leg..So I checked there.And sure enough..found that she had a very sore spot on that muscle...So I eliminated that sore spot...Now all her presenting symptoms are gone.. Thats good enough for me....she came in on a follow up.. and it was still gone.. Good enough for me...Trigger point definition not needed.   I just call them sore spots..and eliminate them.  Not any more complicated then that.  

Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon. In order to present case, will be beneficial if you will propose trigger points definition, including morphology. I believe in such a case it will be much more constructive discussion. By saying:” I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points.”

You are not sharing the knowledge, but if you will explain, then maybe possible  members will know.

Also please understand, that at the time of orthopedic massage procedure, one shouldn't single out some particular muscles, but have to investigate all painful region. And special, when one addressing sports and other trauma inflicted  injuries .No doubt, that according to symptoms, as well at the time of hands examinations,we possible will discover/come to a conclusion about some specific muscles syndrome,it will be obvious. in such a case of course we will address it, by  designed protocols. In cases of TLS patients complain of pain at lateral surface of the iliac crest, and the symptoms cannot be confused with symptoms of sciatica.

Best wishes.

Boris



Daniel Cohen said:

That is why my regular routine covers all those muscles and my regulars come as soon as they recognize the beginning tightness. They don't want it to get to that and they know I will prevent it. Currently 90% of my business is return clients. They trust me with their bodies which I regard as a high honor.



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=14414      This was my clients problem...Not her TFL.. but you can see by the pain pattern why someone with no real knowledge of trigger points might think that way...I see lots of misdiagnosed conditions because people dont really understand trigger points. Doctors of all types included. 

Daniel Cohen said:

Gordon you bring up one of my fears for Massage Therapy. The medical field has concentrated on specialization. Not only seperating specialization but seperating parts of the body. One of the things I like so much about massage is the holistic approach. By following other health care professions too closely I worry we will also become specialized at the expense of the patient.

I have often had an opposite experience. I often get involved in the treatment of Workers' Compensation Insurance patients. I often see that the person is not recovering as they should. By massage palpation and oscillation I have found problems not immediate to the pain. I will suggest to the patient that the next time they see the specialist to tell them it hurts in this spot. Usually the Doctor will then expand the area for medical treatment and recovery comes quickly.

800 years ago Maimonides, the great medieval physician, warned against treating only part of the individual and even trying to separate mind, body, and soul.

 

We have much to offer as a holistic model for the medical professions. We must remain true to our profession and as the truth is realized we will have our place. We will also bring great change to others.

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I understand what you are saying Boris.  I just think massage therapists graduate from these schools thinking that no matter what they do, they dont have the ability to help a client(patient) like other health care providers can...I had an example yesterday...A client came in who was a runner... She had nagging left hip pain that would start after she was well into her running workouts....She went to another type of health care provider that said it was because of her tensor facia latae was too tight...because the pain would run down the side of her leg.. Now that other type of health care provider had massage therapists working for him....So when those therapists got the diagnosis they proceeded to work and stretch out  her tensor faciae latae.   After about three sessions with those people she quit seeing them because there was no change at all in her symptoms...Somehow she came to see me a couple days ago...I checked her tensor faciae latae and  found nothing wrong with it...However I did palpate a trigger point in her glutius minimus and piriformis .. I released those trigger points...I saw her on a follow up yesterday...She was very happy...Her symptoms were gone...and she was very happy...She just came in because I suggested she come in for a follow up a couple days later... My point is.. the other therapists were told that it was her tensor facia latae so all they did was work on a healthy muscle.. After all they are only massage therapists, and if the doctor says its the facia latae, it must be.  They are conditioned in school that they are inferior.

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