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We need some input for our Round the Table column in the next issue of Massage & Bodywork magazine. Reply with your answers and you just might see it printed in the next issue!

 

 

The question this time is:

As a massage therapist, what are some of your professional pet peeves? 

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I had a client the other day...as I brought her into the room I asked her if she had any aches and pains she wanted me to know about...She said my neck is really sore so you dont have to work there...I said Oh, its that sore.. She said yea...I said where does it hurt...It was very sore at the left side of C6 on the spinal erectors..  While still standing in her robe I touched her left side SCM in a specific way and her neck pain vanished...She was shocked..  I told her that I can pretty much remove pain anywhere in her body if its palatable pain.  I cant do it all the time, but most of the time... Then she told me well my right hip always bothers me too...So when she got on the table I palpated a really sore SI joint on her right side...So I manipulated the tissues on her left knee and her SI joint pain vanished immediately...    Also discovered that she had a really bad sore spot at L5 spinal erector right side...So I torqued the tissues at the C4 C5 area on the same side and her L5 pain vanished....Thats the kind of work I do after studying many different approaches to soft tissue work over the years..  And if they have really know aches or pains other then what would be considered normal tension, I flow into a good Lomi lomi like massage flow.....I do this on a daily basis all the time... Thats where Im at...I never hurt anybody or cause harm...I study...Yes Boris,, Im constantly searching for new ideas and approaches...Apply what I learn, keep what works...I will continue to do that.    I said twice that I wouldn't comment in here..  If you dont believe anything I say... I suggest you study the materials on those links Ive posted....And then you will know... Study their material... Try it on your clients....Then make a judgement.....Then you can argue with the people that came up with these concepts...Oh, I dont seem to be able to take pain out of the arms as fast as I can the rest of the body...although I have.  I included a letter from someone I worked on in 1986... Its been several thousand massages sense then(40,000?).. Ive gotten better at what i do now...I like doing body work my way.. My clients are happy, Im busy..and Im excited because unlike you...I don't know it all.. Yea Im always searching.  Boris, I never tell anybody what to do...I just tell what I do...People can do their own thinking and studying.. There are many different approaches to martial arts that are very different from each other...All capable of defeating or defending themselves against an aggressor....There are many approaches to body work that work most or some of the time...If you combine enough approaches.You can help a lot of people. Not everyone of course, but most..  Once any underlying pathology is ruled out...I feel confident working on anybody.  The worst thing that can happen is nothing.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Hi Gordon.

During this discussion as well other discussions, all the time you offering different links to dozens of different websites, that proposing different methodologies of treatment.   most of my professional life, I'm used to and reading related to occupation data, and always was   selective in doing so. Growing up in different professional society I was lucky to be protected by editorial boards , as well professional norms not to be exposed  to 1000s different approaches . Having said this, I don't want to say that all of 1000s, concepts are not good. Cannot say it, because I'm not familiar with this proposals. It is   impossible to read all of them, to analyze it etc. On the other hand, I can assure you, that it is impossible to have 1000s different concepts and approaches, to treat the same abnormalities. Simple impossible. And the reason of it,, because nature of pathologies ,pathogenesis is  the same, lymphedemas, tension within muscles and fascia, developed trigger points, and in general significant  decrease of blood supply. Nature of the healing process, is the same. Possible can be different techniques, to address this pathologies mentioned above, but not concepts of pathology, medical physiology, physiological effect of massage etc.

Why you so desperately searching for NEW? Aren't methodology that you are trained, and practicing providing sustained results? It is absolutely not sarcastic question.

I really suspect that you are not realizing the fact, that at any research control group when we testing real treatment against placebo, in average 30% out coming to good reports , mainly it subjective reports. I mean patient reporting feeling better, but objectively range of motion wasn't increase as well other objective factors .Maybe this “new”is the placebo effect, and immediately after treatment. You can say and I agree, who cares, better is better. But we have to achieve sustained results, not only feels good after treatment. As I stated, in most cases nature of pathologies ,pathogenesis is  the same, and if methodology of treatment not addressing causes of pain and dysfunctions just deny this methodology.

I know there is no silver bullet in our occupation, and know it because we are all different from prospective of energy potentials to heal, and complex of body and mind. I witnessed significant healing with sustained results, when person didn't provide massage therapy  but touch or even with out of touching. How many of us having this potentials? Not a lot.

 But I also know that nature of pathologies ,pathogenesis is  the same. I really hope that you and Gary, and other 10 people who according to Gary’s private e-mail to me, send him   congratulations for” taking on me”,would understand my good intentions, why I am calling against 1000s names.

Best wishes.

Boris



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/massage-therapist/Have-you-heard-Sp...

Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon .In most cases  of back and limp disorders, pain and dysfunctions is a result of, lymphedemas, tension within muscles and fascia, developed trigger points, and in general significant  decrease of blood supply to the injured region.

Orthopedic massage techniques containing all, lymphedema management,myofascial release techniques, trigger point therapy, 12 different types of Petrissage techniques. This  technical approaches, designed to address all mentioned above causes for pain and dysfunction . I agree that there is many different techniques for  lymphedema management,myofascial release techniques, trigger point therapy, , that possibly can address it.This why I stated in my reply to you, trigger point therapy only, is not enough to sustain results. You shouldn't react in a way you did. Wasn't reason for it.

Best wishes.

Boris



Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon. I know that nowadays we having1000s site promoting 1000s different methodologies, some of them promising very fast fix or “new revolutionary”. This 1000s new names phenomena is relatively not too old, 10 years old. I mean this what changed, within our industry. But natur of human body didn't change so much if at all. And if one simply did cut finger, it takes time to heal. Healing process means time, and sometime even pain decreased, it still continue, and if we will not stimulate this healings, symptoms and further pathological development, could continue.

As you know, many times disorders can be treated during seven days,or without treatment will get better during one week. But this is not a cases when real massage therapy have to be  involved.

 Have to run, maybe in the evening will continue.

Best wishes.

Boris

 



Gordon J. Wallis said:

Boris, One of my favorite quotations is, as far as learning goes.    "The purpose of today's training is to undo what we learned yesterday."  MIYAMOTO MUSASHI        He was a master and artist of his trade..as well as a teacher.

http://www.myokinesthetic.com/     You should really buy this guys DVDs..It will change how you do massage...It will.  Anyway Im not on this site anymore.. Im too busy with life anyway.. lol     Im thinking about studying Thai Massage next.. Or Breema.. That will be interesting.....

Boris Prilutsky said:

Hi Peter.

I actually taking very seriously every discussion I'm involved in. Really didn't like constant  Gordon’s dysencouraging  statements, to young professionals, including describing orthopedic disorders as  an not really complicated pathologies, and so simple to treat that for him enough to touch few times and all is over, and other “will fall off that platform”. I really care and don't want my colleagues(maybe some of them) to be dysencouraged, and to have wrong impressions on orthopedic massage. There is a lot of misunderstandings in regards of trigger points’definitions and treatments, therefore I proposed discussions, and even  offered full scientific review on the subject.

I mean all one will read within scientific review can be questioned, and discussed. For some reason Gary decided that I am playing games. Honestly I don't know , how much people reading this posts, and how many of members could be influenced , therefore decided to confront it. Maybe I shouldn't .There is no silver bullet in our occupation but when we providing treatment for  orthopedic disorders, treatment should be adequate, which means  in most cases, not in all, but in most cases, symptoms shouldn't come back fast, or in some at all. You absolutely right, no one can be 100% right, but if clients will continue to talk about massage therapy being temporary relief, and will go back to painkillers, steroids injections etc. all our industry in jeopardy. Have to repeat myself, people do not have money anymore for feels good, and not effective treatment. Orthopedic massage is a simple procedure, and we can change condition  pretty fast but ,there is no fast fix like one touch and all is over . Everyone have to know it before coming to table and treat. Would be very helpful, if somehow we will be able to reorganize  in Ocean of 1000s different names for massage therapy. On the record. 20 years ago when I did come to US, and introduce medical massage therapy name, no one talked about connective tissue massage, trigger point therapy, lymphedema management etc. people used to provide type of orthopedic massage and used to called it sports massage. Mainly practitioners used to practice Swedish massage. And suddenly 1000s.

By all means massage therapy is a medical procedure, and would be nice to talk one language, and not to confuse as well not to be confused. Anyone who practicing Swedish massage and performing petrissage less than 50% of procedure, not really performing medical massage, but if one will include 50% of time for  petrissage, will perform great stress management massage, that will result less anxiety, decrease of blood pressure, less tension headaches, and other side effects of stress. It is simple like this. I will try to search my 9 or10 years old article, I have published at massage today on the subject. Title is Who Should Use the Title "Medical" Massage Therapist?

I hope it will help to balance  1000s names.possible I'm wrong, somehow it have to be adjusted. .

Best wishes.

Boris



Peter Lelean said:

Goodness me , what a sad spectacle. Let's abandon the pompous, elitist and grammatically challenged diatribes . . 

About trigger points . . . I use an activator to good effect (instant) often in conjunction with the techniques mentioned by Gary and Gordon. I have a little experience with fascia, and fascial lesions will always be associated with trigger points to some extent. Guys . .nobody gets it right 100% all the time, not even S&T (leg length), but they had the grace and attitude which serves as an example to the rest of us. When I want some moderately perverse amusement, I'll consider visiting this forum again:)

Attachments:

Dear members.

Gary e-mailed   to me that 10 of you send  to him “thank you” messages, for taking on me.

BTW. What does it mean taking on me? Mainly my discussion/argument was about, trigger point therapy alone is not enough for sustain results.

You just could post:” Boris you wrong in this or this.” And to explain to me ,  what is wrong .If it will be constructive advices I would appreciate it and would thank you .In my opinion, this Is how it supposed to be.

Guys I don't have to apologize for my knowledge and loyalty to our industry. If some of you don't like me being fat, sorry about it. This is my tragedy. 20 years ago during 11 months I got 70 pounds. Not really did overeat. Maybe a bit stress, and probably because prior to coming to America in average I used to work very hard 11 hours a day. But at US started as a stuff trainer, and didn't have to work so hard. Additionally I used to practice sports, but for some reasons after moving to US, stoped it. No matter can assure you that I'm in great shape, my resting heart beats is 55, blood pressure 110 on 70, still can squat five times 300 pounds. It is unusual stuff for person in my age, and I don't taking it for granted, as well don't taking much credit, for what my creator blessed me.

Those of you who called me names in messages to Gary, can do this in posts, I can handle it.

question is:”What I did so terrible to be called, names , and according to Gary very not nice names .” Again you could post it , I wouldn't die of it , it doesn't have to be a behind the back  .Like  I stated ,I don't have to apologize for my knowledge, loyalty to our industry, and for be willing to share my knowledge.

Maybe possible I owe apology to Gary. I am always jeopardizing, if somebody posting stuff I disagree. And few times, like with Gary, it was “upgrading “to personal against me.

This time requested my best friend to review this discussion and to explain if I am doing something wrong. In any way my best friend said to me, that I was too harsh, and repeatedly reminded him that he is a student and this is the reason why he got upset .I really didn't understand, that  this could offend Gary. I was sincere, and didn't try to do nothing, but to give some advice and for his sake. I'm experienced  in our business, and in position to advise. If somebody feeling no need in my advices, just don't take it, but calling names??? Even as we speaking I cannot understand where I was wrong. Really sorry. Wish, that would be able to be much more pleasant.

Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, and very sorry. Maybe this is culture differences, even with my two cousins who in our business, publicly we vigorously debating professional disagreements. When I'm writing articles with Dr. Ross, we  also arguing and not really choosing pleasant words. We not offending each other, but no  schmoes involved. What for schmoes? What good it does? The only different, is with this people, when we discussing we are staying and focusing on topic of discussion, and on statements. In this case please correct me if I am wrong, we were talking on:” if trigger point only, it's enough for sustained results. Obviously we couldn't focus on this topic.

Again, Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, it wasn't intentional and I am very sorry. Just don't understand and don't know how to be pleasant  in professional conversations.

 

Best wishes.

Boris

 

Well they figure they can personally insult you because they see you personally insulting others in here.. so....Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Dear members.

Gary e-mailed   to me that 10 of you send  to him “thank you” messages, for taking on me.

BTW. What does it mean taking on me? Mainly my discussion/argument was about, trigger point therapy alone is not enough for sustain results.

You just could post:” Boris you wrong in this or this.” And to explain to me ,  what is wrong .If it will be constructive advices I would appreciate it and would thank you .In my opinion, this Is how it supposed to be.

Guys I don't have to apologize for my knowledge and loyalty to our industry. If some of you don't like me being fat, sorry about it. This is my tragedy. 20 years ago during 11 months I got 70 pounds. Not really did overeat. Maybe a bit stress, and probably because prior to coming to America in average I used to work very hard 11 hours a day. But at US started as a stuff trainer, and didn't have to work so hard. Additionally I used to practice sports, but for some reasons after moving to US, stoped it. No matter can assure you that I'm in great shape, my resting heart beats is 55, blood pressure 110 on 70, still can squat five times 300 pounds. It is unusual stuff for person in my age, and I don't taking it for granted, as well don't taking much credit, for what my creator blessed me.

Those of you who called me names in messages to Gary, can do this in posts, I can handle it.

question is:”What I did so terrible to be called, names , and according to Gary very not nice names .” Again you could post it , I wouldn't die of it , it doesn't have to be a behind the back  .Like  I stated ,I don't have to apologize for my knowledge, loyalty to our industry, and for be willing to share my knowledge.

Maybe possible I owe apology to Gary. I am always jeopardizing, if somebody posting stuff I disagree. And few times, like with Gary, it was “upgrading “to personal against me.

This time requested my best friend to review this discussion and to explain if I am doing something wrong. In any way my best friend said to me, that I was too harsh, and repeatedly reminded him that he is a student and this is the reason why he got upset .I really didn't understand, that  this could offend Gary. I was sincere, and didn't try to do nothing, but to give some advice and for his sake. I'm experienced  in our business, and in position to advise. If somebody feeling no need in my advices, just don't take it, but calling names??? Even as we speaking I cannot understand where I was wrong. Really sorry. Wish, that would be able to be much more pleasant.

Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, and very sorry. Maybe this is culture differences, even with my two cousins who in our business, publicly we vigorously debating professional disagreements. When I'm writing articles with Dr. Ross, we  also arguing and not really choosing pleasant words. We not offending each other, but no  schmoes involved. What for schmoes? What good it does? The only different, is with this people, when we discussing we are staying and focusing on topic of discussion, and on statements. In this case please correct me if I am wrong, we were talking on:” if trigger point only, it's enough for sustained results. Obviously we couldn't focus on this topic.

Again, Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, it wasn't intentional and I am very sorry. Just don't understand and don't know how to be pleasant  in professional conversations.

 

Best wishes.

Boris

 

I agree on what you have said. But again you a bit off discussion and not addressing my reply.

Will repeat :”I can assure you, that it is impossible to have 1000s different concepts and approaches, to treat the same abnormalities. Simple impossible. And the reason for it,, because nature of pathologies ,pathogenesis is  the same,:” lymphedemas, tension within muscles and fascia, developed trigger points, and in general significant  decrease of blood supply. Nature of the healing process, is the same. Possible can be different techniques, to address this pathologies mentioned above, but cannot be different concepts of pathology, medical physiology, physiological effect of massage etc.”

if techniques not addressing mentioned above abnormalities, in adequate manner you cannot sustaine results.

Best wishes.

Boris

 



Gordon J. Wallis said:

I had a client the other day...as I brought her into the room I asked her if she had any aches and pains she wanted me to know about...She said my neck is really sore so you dont have to work there...I said Oh, its that sore.. She said yea...I said where does it hurt...It was very sore at the left side of C6 on the spinal erectors..  While still standing in her robe I touched her left side SCM in a specific way and her neck pain vanished...She was shocked..  I told her that I can pretty much remove pain anywhere in her body if its palatable pain.  I cant do it all the time, but most of the time... Then she told me well my right hip always bothers me too...So when she got on the table I palpated a really sore SI joint on her right side...So I manipulated the tissues on her left knee and her SI joint pain vanished immediately...    Also discovered that she had a really bad sore spot at L5 spinal erector right side...So I torqued the tissues at the C4 C5 area on the same side and her L5 pain vanished....Thats the kind of work I do after studying many different approaches to soft tissue work over the years..  And if they have really know aches or pains other then what would be considered normal tension, I flow into a good Lomi lomi like massage flow.....I do this on a daily basis all the time... Thats where Im at...I never hurt anybody or cause harm...I study...Yes Boris,, Im constantly searching for new ideas and approaches...Apply what I learn, keep what works...I will continue to do that.    I said twice that I wouldn't comment in here..  If you dont believe anything I say... I suggest you study the materials on those links Ive posted....And then you will know... Study their material... Try it on your clients....Then make a judgement.....Then you can argue with the people that came up with these concepts...Oh, I dont seem to be able to take pain out of the arms as fast as I can the rest of the body...although I have.  I included a letter from someone I worked on in 1986... Its been several thousand massages sense then(40,000?).. Ive gotten better at what i do now...I like doing body work my way.. My clients are happy, Im busy..and Im excited because unlike you...I don't know it all.. Yea Im always searching.  Boris, I never tell anybody what to do...I just tell what I do...People can do their own thinking and studying.. There are many different approaches to martial arts that are very different from each other...All capable of defeating or defending themselves against an aggressor....There are many approaches to body work that work most or some of the time...If you combine enough approaches.You can help a lot of people. Not everyone of course, but most..  Once any underlying pathology is ruled out...I feel confident working on anybody.  The worst thing that can happen is nothing.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Hi Gordon.

During this discussion as well other discussions, all the time you offering different links to dozens of different websites, that proposing different methodologies of treatment.   most of my professional life, I'm used to and reading related to occupation data, and always was   selective in doing so. Growing up in different professional society I was lucky to be protected by editorial boards , as well professional norms not to be exposed  to 1000s different approaches . Having said this, I don't want to say that all of 1000s, concepts are not good. Cannot say it, because I'm not familiar with this proposals. It is   impossible to read all of them, to analyze it etc. On the other hand, I can assure you, that it is impossible to have 1000s different concepts and approaches, to treat the same abnormalities. Simple impossible. And the reason of it,, because nature of pathologies ,pathogenesis is  the same, lymphedemas, tension within muscles and fascia, developed trigger points, and in general significant  decrease of blood supply. Nature of the healing process, is the same. Possible can be different techniques, to address this pathologies mentioned above, but not concepts of pathology, medical physiology, physiological effect of massage etc.

Why you so desperately searching for NEW? Aren't methodology that you are trained, and practicing providing sustained results? It is absolutely not sarcastic question.

I really suspect that you are not realizing the fact, that at any research control group when we testing real treatment against placebo, in average 30% out coming to good reports , mainly it subjective reports. I mean patient reporting feeling better, but objectively range of motion wasn't increase as well other objective factors .Maybe this “new”is the placebo effect, and immediately after treatment. You can say and I agree, who cares, better is better. But we have to achieve sustained results, not only feels good after treatment. As I stated, in most cases nature of pathologies ,pathogenesis is  the same, and if methodology of treatment not addressing causes of pain and dysfunctions just deny this methodology.

I know there is no silver bullet in our occupation, and know it because we are all different from prospective of energy potentials to heal, and complex of body and mind. I witnessed significant healing with sustained results, when person didn't provide massage therapy  but touch or even with out of touching. How many of us having this potentials? Not a lot.

 But I also know that nature of pathologies ,pathogenesis is  the same. I really hope that you and Gary, and other 10 people who according to Gary’s private e-mail to me, send him   congratulations for” taking on me”,would understand my good intentions, why I am calling against 1000s names.

Best wishes.

Boris



Gordon J. Wallis said:

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/massage-therapist/Have-you-heard-Sp...

Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon .In most cases  of back and limp disorders, pain and dysfunctions is a result of, lymphedemas, tension within muscles and fascia, developed trigger points, and in general significant  decrease of blood supply to the injured region.

Orthopedic massage techniques containing all, lymphedema management,myofascial release techniques, trigger point therapy, 12 different types of Petrissage techniques. This  technical approaches, designed to address all mentioned above causes for pain and dysfunction . I agree that there is many different techniques for  lymphedema management,myofascial release techniques, trigger point therapy, , that possibly can address it.This why I stated in my reply to you, trigger point therapy only, is not enough to sustain results. You shouldn't react in a way you did. Wasn't reason for it.

Best wishes.

Boris



Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon. I know that nowadays we having1000s site promoting 1000s different methodologies, some of them promising very fast fix or “new revolutionary”. This 1000s new names phenomena is relatively not too old, 10 years old. I mean this what changed, within our industry. But natur of human body didn't change so much if at all. And if one simply did cut finger, it takes time to heal. Healing process means time, and sometime even pain decreased, it still continue, and if we will not stimulate this healings, symptoms and further pathological development, could continue.

As you know, many times disorders can be treated during seven days,or without treatment will get better during one week. But this is not a cases when real massage therapy have to be  involved.

 Have to run, maybe in the evening will continue.

Best wishes.

Boris

 



Gordon J. Wallis said:

Boris, One of my favorite quotations is, as far as learning goes.    "The purpose of today's training is to undo what we learned yesterday."  MIYAMOTO MUSASHI        He was a master and artist of his trade..as well as a teacher.

http://www.myokinesthetic.com/     You should really buy this guys DVDs..It will change how you do massage...It will.  Anyway Im not on this site anymore.. Im too busy with life anyway.. lol     Im thinking about studying Thai Massage next.. Or Breema.. That will be interesting.....

Boris Prilutsky said:

Hi Peter.

I actually taking very seriously every discussion I'm involved in. Really didn't like constant  Gordon’s dysencouraging  statements, to young professionals, including describing orthopedic disorders as  an not really complicated pathologies, and so simple to treat that for him enough to touch few times and all is over, and other “will fall off that platform”. I really care and don't want my colleagues(maybe some of them) to be dysencouraged, and to have wrong impressions on orthopedic massage. There is a lot of misunderstandings in regards of trigger points’definitions and treatments, therefore I proposed discussions, and even  offered full scientific review on the subject.

I mean all one will read within scientific review can be questioned, and discussed. For some reason Gary decided that I am playing games. Honestly I don't know , how much people reading this posts, and how many of members could be influenced , therefore decided to confront it. Maybe I shouldn't .There is no silver bullet in our occupation but when we providing treatment for  orthopedic disorders, treatment should be adequate, which means  in most cases, not in all, but in most cases, symptoms shouldn't come back fast, or in some at all. You absolutely right, no one can be 100% right, but if clients will continue to talk about massage therapy being temporary relief, and will go back to painkillers, steroids injections etc. all our industry in jeopardy. Have to repeat myself, people do not have money anymore for feels good, and not effective treatment. Orthopedic massage is a simple procedure, and we can change condition  pretty fast but ,there is no fast fix like one touch and all is over . Everyone have to know it before coming to table and treat. Would be very helpful, if somehow we will be able to reorganize  in Ocean of 1000s different names for massage therapy. On the record. 20 years ago when I did come to US, and introduce medical massage therapy name, no one talked about connective tissue massage, trigger point therapy, lymphedema management etc. people used to provide type of orthopedic massage and used to called it sports massage. Mainly practitioners used to practice Swedish massage. And suddenly 1000s.

By all means massage therapy is a medical procedure, and would be nice to talk one language, and not to confuse as well not to be confused. Anyone who practicing Swedish massage and performing petrissage less than 50% of procedure, not really performing medical massage, but if one will include 50% of time for  petrissage, will perform great stress management massage, that will result less anxiety, decrease of blood pressure, less tension headaches, and other side effects of stress. It is simple like this. I will try to search my 9 or10 years old article, I have published at massage today on the subject. Title is Who Should Use the Title "Medical" Massage Therapist?

I hope it will help to balance  1000s names.possible I'm wrong, somehow it have to be adjusted. .

Best wishes.

Boris



Peter Lelean said:

Goodness me , what a sad spectacle. Let's abandon the pompous, elitist and grammatically challenged diatribes . . 

About trigger points . . . I use an activator to good effect (instant) often in conjunction with the techniques mentioned by Gary and Gordon. I have a little experience with fascia, and fascial lesions will always be associated with trigger points to some extent. Guys . .nobody gets it right 100% all the time, not even S&T (leg length), but they had the grace and attitude which serves as an example to the rest of us. When I want some moderately perverse amusement, I'll consider visiting this forum again:)

Gordon, agree with you :"Whats good for the goose is good for the gander" and using the opportunity would like to ask you to bring examples, of me  insulting.maybe I do not realize, and if you will provide example I will admit, will apologize and will never repeat. Up front thank you.

Best wishes.

Boris

Gordon J. Wallis said:

Well they figure they can personally insult you because they see you personally insulting others in here.. so....Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Dear members.

Gary e-mailed   to me that 10 of you send  to him “thank you” messages, for taking on me.

BTW. What does it mean taking on me? Mainly my discussion/argument was about, trigger point therapy alone is not enough for sustain results.

You just could post:” Boris you wrong in this or this.” And to explain to me ,  what is wrong .If it will be constructive advices I would appreciate it and would thank you .In my opinion, this Is how it supposed to be.

Guys I don't have to apologize for my knowledge and loyalty to our industry. If some of you don't like me being fat, sorry about it. This is my tragedy. 20 years ago during 11 months I got 70 pounds. Not really did overeat. Maybe a bit stress, and probably because prior to coming to America in average I used to work very hard 11 hours a day. But at US started as a stuff trainer, and didn't have to work so hard. Additionally I used to practice sports, but for some reasons after moving to US, stoped it. No matter can assure you that I'm in great shape, my resting heart beats is 55, blood pressure 110 on 70, still can squat five times 300 pounds. It is unusual stuff for person in my age, and I don't taking it for granted, as well don't taking much credit, for what my creator blessed me.

Those of you who called me names in messages to Gary, can do this in posts, I can handle it.

question is:”What I did so terrible to be called, names , and according to Gary very not nice names .” Again you could post it , I wouldn't die of it , it doesn't have to be a behind the back  .Like  I stated ,I don't have to apologize for my knowledge, loyalty to our industry, and for be willing to share my knowledge.

Maybe possible I owe apology to Gary. I am always jeopardizing, if somebody posting stuff I disagree. And few times, like with Gary, it was “upgrading “to personal against me.

This time requested my best friend to review this discussion and to explain if I am doing something wrong. In any way my best friend said to me, that I was too harsh, and repeatedly reminded him that he is a student and this is the reason why he got upset .I really didn't understand, that  this could offend Gary. I was sincere, and didn't try to do nothing, but to give some advice and for his sake. I'm experienced  in our business, and in position to advise. If somebody feeling no need in my advices, just don't take it, but calling names??? Even as we speaking I cannot understand where I was wrong. Really sorry. Wish, that would be able to be much more pleasant.

Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, and very sorry. Maybe this is culture differences, even with my two cousins who in our business, publicly we vigorously debating professional disagreements. When I'm writing articles with Dr. Ross, we  also arguing and not really choosing pleasant words. We not offending each other, but no  schmoes involved. What for schmoes? What good it does? The only different, is with this people, when we discussing we are staying and focusing on topic of discussion, and on statements. In this case please correct me if I am wrong, we were talking on:” if trigger point only, it's enough for sustained results. Obviously we couldn't focus on this topic.

Again, Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, it wasn't intentional and I am very sorry. Just don't understand and don't know how to be pleasant  in professional conversations.

 

Best wishes.

Boris

 

Gordon, very well said. 

Excellent detailing of the reasons that ABMP, AMTA, Massage Therapy Foundation, American Medical Massage Association all urge massage therapists to keep their nose in the wind, their ears attuned, their eyes encompassing, their minds open and questioning.  For as Albert Einstein remarked, "Imagination is more important than knowledge."  As I learned during my decades of bodybuilding, when your body is not growing, it is going--and when you are not learning, your mind begins to lose its ability to reason.  Nothing on this planet stands still. 

Socrates was poisoned for speaking truth to lies.  Throughout history innovators have always been attacked by defenders of the status quo...by people whose minds are encased in cement...by those who proclaim that their methods are the only one permitted.  

What a waste of brain power.

Keep leading the way, Gordon.    


 

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I had a client the other day...as I brought her into the room I asked her if she had any aches and pains she wanted me to know about...She said my neck is really sore so you dont have to work there...I said Oh, its that sore.. She said yea...I said where does it hurt...It was very sore at the left side of C6 on the spinal erectors..  While still standing in her robe I touched her left side SCM in a specific way and her neck pain vanished...She was shocked..  I told her that I can pretty much remove pain anywhere in her body if its palatable pain.  I cant do it all the time, but most of the time... Then she told me well my right hip always bothers me too...So when she got on the table I palpated a really sore SI joint on her right side...So I manipulated the tissues on her left knee and her SI joint pain vanished immediately...    Also discovered that she had a really bad sore spot at L5 spinal erector right side...So I torqued the tissues at the C4 C5 area on the same side and her L5 pain vanished....Thats the kind of work I do after studying many different approaches to soft tissue work over the years..  And if they have really know aches or pains other then what would be considered normal tension, I flow into a good Lomi lomi like massage flow.....I do this on a daily basis all the time... Thats where Im at...I never hurt anybody or cause harm...I study...Yes Boris,, Im constantly searching for new ideas and approaches...Apply what I learn, keep what works...I will continue to do that.    I said twice that I wouldn't comment in here..  If you dont believe anything I say... I suggest you study the materials on those links Ive posted....And then you will know... Study their material... Try it on your clients....Then make a judgement.....Then you can argue with the people that came up with these concepts...Oh, I dont seem to be able to take pain out of the arms as fast as I can the rest of the body...although I have.  I included a letter from someone I worked on in 1986... Its been several thousand massages sense then(40,000?).. Ive gotten better at what i do now...I like doing body work my way.. My clients are happy, Im busy..and Im excited because unlike you...I don't know it all.. Yea Im always searching.  Boris, I never tell anybody what to do...I just tell what I do...People can do their own thinking and studying.. There are many different approaches to martial arts that are very different from each other...All capable of defeating or defending themselves against an aggressor....There are many approaches to body work that work most or some of the time...If you combine enough approaches.You can help a lot of people. Not everyone of course, but most..  Once any underlying pathology is ruled out...I feel confident working on anybody.  The worst thing that can happen is nothing.

My pet peeves:

- Ethics :  As far as therapists are concerned, ethics are stressed from every direction. But the ethics of the schools, teachers and those selling products and education to us (therapists) are rarely addressed. 

- Guru worshipping - there's too much of it in our profession and not enough questioning.

- Trademarks on types of work - there will probably be more of this showing up in the future and it's just not right.

- Inefficiency of organizations when it comes to making changes.  This also includes inefficiency in communications.

- Lack of transparency with what goes on in and between organizations

- Lack of standards and the lie that we tell ourselves: "we're healthcare providers", when only a small section of our profession could really be considered as such.

- therapists selling wacky stuff, such as the claim that a pyramid under the table is harnessing an energy vortex - just one example, but there are plenty of other things that are similar that paints us all in a bad light.

- Presumptuous people

and last, but not least:

- Ad hominems on massage discussion boards that are just left standing, when really a site administrator should probably consider putting a stop to such things.  The public sees this board, which is why I don't have my real name on here.

Sometimes it's better just to let something rest, rather than looking like you have to "win" by getting the last word in, you know?

You claim to have reviewed all the exchanges in this thread, and you saw no instances in which you insulted Gordon?  Even you are not so dense.  You know damn well where and when you have besmirched the skills and the integrity of my friend Gordon. 

As for me, Boris, you told me quite plainly that I am not qualified to express an opinion about trigger point therapy.  To the contrary, Mr Prilutsky, I believe that I am at least as well qualified to speak on the subject as you as you are.  Judging by your comments in every thread you have participated in for the last two years, you believe that you know everything there is to know about massage therapy-- and no one else knows anything.  Or maybe you don't actually believe such nonsense and are merely trying to sell your training DVDs.

I proudly declare myself to be a student-- I will remain a student of massage therapy, life and love, this planet, and all the other sciences for the remainder of my life.  Unlike you, Boris, I am curious about EVERYTHING.  To me, and to Gordon, and to Daniel, and to Stephen, and to Linda and to tens of thousands of massage therapists unnamed, the path to greater knowledge is an adventure. I do not have your skillset--yet.  I do not know even a small portion of all the things you do--yet.  But if I live another ten years, I will, Boris. Graduation from college in a couple of months will not be the culmination of my academic career.

The best instructor in my school, a member of the State Massage Therapy Board, says to anyone who will listen that she learns something from every student she teaches.  If only you could say the same thing.

Boris, don't worry about apologizing to me for the insults you don't recognize to be insults.  It's just not in your psychological makeup to accept anyone as your equal.  But that is alright with me, Boris, because I know my own strengths and limitations: I do not hesitate to declare myself your equal in intellectual capacity, and your superior in eagerness--and therefore, ability to learn.

 



Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon, agree with you :"Whats good for the goose is good for the gander" and using the opportunity would like to ask you to bring examples, of me  insulting.maybe I do not realize, and if you will provide example I will admit, will apologize and will never repeat. Up front thank you.

Best wishes.

Boris

Gordon J. Wallis said:

Well they figure they can personally insult you because they see you personally insulting others in here.. so....Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Dear members.

Gary e-mailed   to me that 10 of you send  to him “thank you” messages, for taking on me.

BTW. What does it mean taking on me? Mainly my discussion/argument was about, trigger point therapy alone is not enough for sustain results.

You just could post:” Boris you wrong in this or this.” And to explain to me ,  what is wrong .If it will be constructive advices I would appreciate it and would thank you .In my opinion, this Is how it supposed to be.

Guys I don't have to apologize for my knowledge and loyalty to our industry. If some of you don't like me being fat, sorry about it. This is my tragedy. 20 years ago during 11 months I got 70 pounds. Not really did overeat. Maybe a bit stress, and probably because prior to coming to America in average I used to work very hard 11 hours a day. But at US started as a stuff trainer, and didn't have to work so hard. Additionally I used to practice sports, but for some reasons after moving to US, stoped it. No matter can assure you that I'm in great shape, my resting heart beats is 55, blood pressure 110 on 70, still can squat five times 300 pounds. It is unusual stuff for person in my age, and I don't taking it for granted, as well don't taking much credit, for what my creator blessed me.

Those of you who called me names in messages to Gary, can do this in posts, I can handle it.

question is:”What I did so terrible to be called, names , and according to Gary very not nice names .” Again you could post it , I wouldn't die of it , it doesn't have to be a behind the back  .Like  I stated ,I don't have to apologize for my knowledge, loyalty to our industry, and for be willing to share my knowledge.

Maybe possible I owe apology to Gary. I am always jeopardizing, if somebody posting stuff I disagree. And few times, like with Gary, it was “upgrading “to personal against me.

This time requested my best friend to review this discussion and to explain if I am doing something wrong. In any way my best friend said to me, that I was too harsh, and repeatedly reminded him that he is a student and this is the reason why he got upset .I really didn't understand, that  this could offend Gary. I was sincere, and didn't try to do nothing, but to give some advice and for his sake. I'm experienced  in our business, and in position to advise. If somebody feeling no need in my advices, just don't take it, but calling names??? Even as we speaking I cannot understand where I was wrong. Really sorry. Wish, that would be able to be much more pleasant.

Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, and very sorry. Maybe this is culture differences, even with my two cousins who in our business, publicly we vigorously debating professional disagreements. When I'm writing articles with Dr. Ross, we  also arguing and not really choosing pleasant words. We not offending each other, but no  schmoes involved. What for schmoes? What good it does? The only different, is with this people, when we discussing we are staying and focusing on topic of discussion, and on statements. In this case please correct me if I am wrong, we were talking on:” if trigger point only, it's enough for sustained results. Obviously we couldn't focus on this topic.

Again, Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, it wasn't intentional and I am very sorry. Just don't understand and don't know how to be pleasant  in professional conversations.

 

Best wishes.

Boris

 

Gary what you had said,is a general spinning. Including not to bring samples, where I'm insulting anyone, or proclaiming that my teaching is the superior. I do  acquired  considerable amount of knowledge, including and based on  very rich  clinical experience,but not everyone can learn from me. This I learned long ago.

now I know I didn't offend you,and therefore didn't have to apologize.after this post of yours, by all means you deserve to be ignored by me.

Gary W Addis said:

You claim to have reviewed all the exchanges in this thread, and you saw no instances in which you insulted Gordon?  Even you are not so dense.  You know damn well where and when you have besmirched the skills and the integrity of my friend Gordon. 

As for me, Boris, you told me quite plainly that I am not qualified to express an opinion about trigger point therapy.  To the contrary, Mr Prilutsky, I believe that I am at least as well qualified to speak on the subject as you as you are.  Judging by your comments in every thread you have participated in for the last two years, you believe that you know everything there is to know about massage therapy-- and no one else knows anything.  Or maybe you don't actually believe such nonsense and are merely trying to sell your training DVDs.

I proudly declare myself to be a student-- I will remain a student of massage therapy, life and love, this planet, and all the other sciences for the remainder of my life.  Unlike you, Boris, I am curious about EVERYTHING.  To me, and to Gordon, and to Daniel, and to Stephen, and to Linda and to tens of thousands of massage therapists unnamed, the path to greater knowledge is an adventure. I do not have your skillset--yet.  I do not know even a small portion of all the things you do--yet.  But if I live another ten years, I will, Boris. Graduation from college in a couple of months will not be the culmination of my academic career.

The best instructor in my school, a member of the State Massage Therapy Board, says to anyone who will listen that she learns something from every student she teaches.  If only you could say the same thing.

Boris, don't worry about apologizing to me for the insults you don't recognize to be insults.  It's just not in your psychological makeup to accept anyone as your equal.  But that is alright with me, Boris, because I know my own strengths and limitations: I do not hesitate to declare myself your equal in intellectual capacity, and your superior in eagerness--and therefore, ability to learn.

 



Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon, agree with you :"Whats good for the goose is good for the gander" and using the opportunity would like to ask you to bring examples, of me  insulting.maybe I do not realize, and if you will provide example I will admit, will apologize and will never repeat. Up front thank you.

Best wishes.

Boris

Gordon J. Wallis said:

Well they figure they can personally insult you because they see you personally insulting others in here.. so....Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Dear members.

Gary e-mailed   to me that 10 of you send  to him “thank you” messages, for taking on me.

BTW. What does it mean taking on me? Mainly my discussion/argument was about, trigger point therapy alone is not enough for sustain results.

You just could post:” Boris you wrong in this or this.” And to explain to me ,  what is wrong .If it will be constructive advices I would appreciate it and would thank you .In my opinion, this Is how it supposed to be.

Guys I don't have to apologize for my knowledge and loyalty to our industry. If some of you don't like me being fat, sorry about it. This is my tragedy. 20 years ago during 11 months I got 70 pounds. Not really did overeat. Maybe a bit stress, and probably because prior to coming to America in average I used to work very hard 11 hours a day. But at US started as a stuff trainer, and didn't have to work so hard. Additionally I used to practice sports, but for some reasons after moving to US, stoped it. No matter can assure you that I'm in great shape, my resting heart beats is 55, blood pressure 110 on 70, still can squat five times 300 pounds. It is unusual stuff for person in my age, and I don't taking it for granted, as well don't taking much credit, for what my creator blessed me.

Those of you who called me names in messages to Gary, can do this in posts, I can handle it.

question is:”What I did so terrible to be called, names , and according to Gary very not nice names .” Again you could post it , I wouldn't die of it , it doesn't have to be a behind the back  .Like  I stated ,I don't have to apologize for my knowledge, loyalty to our industry, and for be willing to share my knowledge.

Maybe possible I owe apology to Gary. I am always jeopardizing, if somebody posting stuff I disagree. And few times, like with Gary, it was “upgrading “to personal against me.

This time requested my best friend to review this discussion and to explain if I am doing something wrong. In any way my best friend said to me, that I was too harsh, and repeatedly reminded him that he is a student and this is the reason why he got upset .I really didn't understand, that  this could offend Gary. I was sincere, and didn't try to do nothing, but to give some advice and for his sake. I'm experienced  in our business, and in position to advise. If somebody feeling no need in my advices, just don't take it, but calling names??? Even as we speaking I cannot understand where I was wrong. Really sorry. Wish, that would be able to be much more pleasant.

Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, and very sorry. Maybe this is culture differences, even with my two cousins who in our business, publicly we vigorously debating professional disagreements. When I'm writing articles with Dr. Ross, we  also arguing and not really choosing pleasant words. We not offending each other, but no  schmoes involved. What for schmoes? What good it does? The only different, is with this people, when we discussing we are staying and focusing on topic of discussion, and on statements. In this case please correct me if I am wrong, we were talking on:” if trigger point only, it's enough for sustained results. Obviously we couldn't focus on this topic.

Again, Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, it wasn't intentional and I am very sorry. Just don't understand and don't know how to be pleasant  in professional conversations.

 

Best wishes.

Boris

 

Boris, you are not going to quit without the last word, are you?  It's okay, I have a 7 year old Pomeranian female like that--she will always get in the last bark even if it cost her life. 

You win.  I am through with this thread, and if I'm exceedingly lucky, through with you forevermore. 

Say whatever you wish about me; I won't reply to set the record straight.  You need to comprehend that you are just not that important to me or all the other people that aren't paying attention to your continuous attempts to justify your rude, insulting comments about anyone who disagrees with you.



Boris Prilutsky said:

Gary what you had said,is a general spinning. Including not to bring samples, where I'm insulting anyone, or proclaiming that my teaching is the superior. I do  acquired  considerable amount of knowledge, including and based on  very rich  clinical experience,but not everyone can learn from me. This I learned long ago.

now I know I didn't offend you,and therefore didn't have to apologize.after this post of yours, by all means you deserve to be ignored by me.

Gary W Addis said:

You claim to have reviewed all the exchanges in this thread, and you saw no instances in which you insulted Gordon?  Even you are not so dense.  You know damn well where and when you have besmirched the skills and the integrity of my friend Gordon. 

As for me, Boris, you told me quite plainly that I am not qualified to express an opinion about trigger point therapy.  To the contrary, Mr Prilutsky, I believe that I am at least as well qualified to speak on the subject as you as you are.  Judging by your comments in every thread you have participated in for the last two years, you believe that you know everything there is to know about massage therapy-- and no one else knows anything.  Or maybe you don't actually believe such nonsense and are merely trying to sell your training DVDs.

I proudly declare myself to be a student-- I will remain a student of massage therapy, life and love, this planet, and all the other sciences for the remainder of my life.  Unlike you, Boris, I am curious about EVERYTHING.  To me, and to Gordon, and to Daniel, and to Stephen, and to Linda and to tens of thousands of massage therapists unnamed, the path to greater knowledge is an adventure. I do not have your skillset--yet.  I do not know even a small portion of all the things you do--yet.  But if I live another ten years, I will, Boris. Graduation from college in a couple of months will not be the culmination of my academic career.

The best instructor in my school, a member of the State Massage Therapy Board, says to anyone who will listen that she learns something from every student she teaches.  If only you could say the same thing.

Boris, don't worry about apologizing to me for the insults you don't recognize to be insults.  It's just not in your psychological makeup to accept anyone as your equal.  But that is alright with me, Boris, because I know my own strengths and limitations: I do not hesitate to declare myself your equal in intellectual capacity, and your superior in eagerness--and therefore, ability to learn.

 



Boris Prilutsky said:

Gordon, agree with you :"Whats good for the goose is good for the gander" and using the opportunity would like to ask you to bring examples, of me  insulting.maybe I do not realize, and if you will provide example I will admit, will apologize and will never repeat. Up front thank you.

Best wishes.

Boris

Gordon J. Wallis said:

Well they figure they can personally insult you because they see you personally insulting others in here.. so....Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Dear members.

Gary e-mailed   to me that 10 of you send  to him “thank you” messages, for taking on me.

BTW. What does it mean taking on me? Mainly my discussion/argument was about, trigger point therapy alone is not enough for sustain results.

You just could post:” Boris you wrong in this or this.” And to explain to me ,  what is wrong .If it will be constructive advices I would appreciate it and would thank you .In my opinion, this Is how it supposed to be.

Guys I don't have to apologize for my knowledge and loyalty to our industry. If some of you don't like me being fat, sorry about it. This is my tragedy. 20 years ago during 11 months I got 70 pounds. Not really did overeat. Maybe a bit stress, and probably because prior to coming to America in average I used to work very hard 11 hours a day. But at US started as a stuff trainer, and didn't have to work so hard. Additionally I used to practice sports, but for some reasons after moving to US, stoped it. No matter can assure you that I'm in great shape, my resting heart beats is 55, blood pressure 110 on 70, still can squat five times 300 pounds. It is unusual stuff for person in my age, and I don't taking it for granted, as well don't taking much credit, for what my creator blessed me.

Those of you who called me names in messages to Gary, can do this in posts, I can handle it.

question is:”What I did so terrible to be called, names , and according to Gary very not nice names .” Again you could post it , I wouldn't die of it , it doesn't have to be a behind the back  .Like  I stated ,I don't have to apologize for my knowledge, loyalty to our industry, and for be willing to share my knowledge.

Maybe possible I owe apology to Gary. I am always jeopardizing, if somebody posting stuff I disagree. And few times, like with Gary, it was “upgrading “to personal against me.

This time requested my best friend to review this discussion and to explain if I am doing something wrong. In any way my best friend said to me, that I was too harsh, and repeatedly reminded him that he is a student and this is the reason why he got upset .I really didn't understand, that  this could offend Gary. I was sincere, and didn't try to do nothing, but to give some advice and for his sake. I'm experienced  in our business, and in position to advise. If somebody feeling no need in my advices, just don't take it, but calling names??? Even as we speaking I cannot understand where I was wrong. Really sorry. Wish, that would be able to be much more pleasant.

Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, and very sorry. Maybe this is culture differences, even with my two cousins who in our business, publicly we vigorously debating professional disagreements. When I'm writing articles with Dr. Ross, we  also arguing and not really choosing pleasant words. We not offending each other, but no  schmoes involved. What for schmoes? What good it does? The only different, is with this people, when we discussing we are staying and focusing on topic of discussion, and on statements. In this case please correct me if I am wrong, we were talking on:” if trigger point only, it's enough for sustained results. Obviously we couldn't focus on this topic.

Again, Gary if I offended you, I didn't know about it, it wasn't intentional and I am very sorry. Just don't understand and don't know how to be pleasant  in professional conversations.

 

Best wishes.

Boris

 

To all involved in the discussion:

Please bring the conversation back to a civil level of discourse. Personal attacks are unnecessary, unprofessional, and uncalled-for.

If you cannot regulate yourself, I will be forced to do it for you.

Best regards,

Abram Herman

Site Moderator at massageprofessionals.com

Fake businesses are practicing without valid license. It would be nice if Craigslist would only allows posts in their "Therapeutic" section from valid licensed massage therapists. If the license number is missing in their post, Craigslist system must automatically delete it. Craigslist charges $10 for new posts and $5 for renewal for anyone who posts in their therapeutic section.  Also request massage & bodywork board of your state to monitor posts in Therapeutic section for those without license. 

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