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I hope this gets everyone's attention, and I don't give a rip if anyone replies or not. I am posting this separately from the previous discussions on here that have deteriorated into the most vile insulting and mudslinging bunch of crap I have ever seen in my life.

 

It is distressing to me that massage therapists, researchers in the field, and anyone else associated with our profession in any way stoop to this kind of behavior. Not only is it not a productive discussion, it is starting to sound like a bunch of politicians on tv with their insulting of each other's credentials, standards, and abilities.

 

I am not interested in shame and blame, so who started it and who said what is irrelevant. I urge you all to remember that we are ALL in this profession because we have a desire to help people through the awesome power of touch, and that is what it is about.

 

We don't have to agree. We can all agree to disagree. The personal attacks, the character attacks, the arguing over which country does it better, is ridiculous, petty, and childish. This is not the first time this has happened. It is the main reason I avoid this site most of the time.

 

I am no better, or no worse than anyone else, and everybody is entitled to an opinion. That's what forums are meant for, so that people with differing opinions have a place to discuss those, but so much of what has gone on here is not a civil discussion. When I see people that I know to be hard-working, caring people, and people that I know to be brilliant minds and hard-working as well get into these mudslinging insulting arguments on here, I personally find that to be a bad reflection of what we are supposed to be about.

 

I don't have to be bad in order for you to be good. You don't have to be a failure just so someone else can be a success. One country who does things differently is not better or worse, they are just different. People get caught up in national pride, and that's okay, but it does not have to deteriorate into what some of these discussions have deteriorated into. Someone makes a comment, someone takes it the wrong way, or out of context, and it just goes downhill from there.

 

When you're writing like this, you can't hear people's tone of voice, you can't see their body language, and what might be civil if we were all in a room together comes off as a bunch of superior b*******, and one's just as guilty as the other. When anyone has anything intelligent to say, someone else seizes upon that and uses it as an excuse for the next round of arguing.

 

I wish everyone of you peace and prosperity, regardless of where you are from, what you do, or how you do it. We are all equal by virtue of the fact that we are all human and it's too bad that people are fighting like a pack of junkyard dogs instead of having a civil disagreement. I can't participate in it and I won't.

 

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well said
I appreciate this Laura. I am sorry for my part. I am guilty as well. I will not answer any more of their questions if baited. I will try to give facts again and not my opinions of those that oppose. I have closed the discussion on America Leading. It has digressed.
Thanks Laura, I appreciate your ability to articulate this.

Oh no... Sadly, there has been more vile insulting and mudslinging bunches of crap.  One need only take a look at the archives found at  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bodywork_politics/ .  The posts are open to the public.  To post, you must join the group.  

 

Mudslinging and crap is, again sadly, much of what politics is made up of.  In the archives of the list is the best point/counter point piece I know of.   The piece can also be found at http://iscaaty.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_archive.html  It is the last post for February/2006 called Licensing: Two Sides of the Political Coin.  I side with the anti-amta/licensing forces. The argument held amta at bay, in GA, for awhile.   

 

No association of rubbers.  http://tinyurl.com/4s3xfrb is where you will find NORMM...  

 

The Rev

Laura, the problems that you are highlighting are not simply the result of incivility.  Sure, civility is better than incivility, but civility is of little value if it is not accompanied by integrity, logic, and tolerance.

 

-CM

I found it interesting that this debate built up and reached a peak on February 14th AKA Valentines Day.  Not since 1929 have we seen such a passionate Valentines Day http://www.mysterynet.com/vdaymassacre/   Unfortunately, as the Rev says, disintegration of dialogue seems to be a hallmark of online forums.  As I was reading the thread I felt for all involved and though boy if I was involved in such a heated discussion how difficult it would be to focus on my next massage, or planning for a festival.  With that said I am looking forward to Vegas in 2012.  
Period !

Thank you Laura. One important fact that folks do not realize. When the mud slinging is going on, we can only speak of ourselves and our own experiences. So we are only huring ourselves not the other people.

 

Thank you Micheal for the Apology! That was important! "Let It Begin With Me" is such an  important slogan. Thank you for always setting the example.  Everyone have a great weekend!

 

 Love and Hugs to you all.

"I don't have to be bad in order for you to be good. You don't have to be a failure just so someone else can be a success. One country who does things differently is not better or worse, they are just different."

 

Well said.....

I am posting this separately from the previous discussions on here that have deteriorated into the most vile insulting and mudslinging bunch of crap I have ever seen in my life.

I'm with The Rev on this point:

Sadly, there has been more vile insulting and mudslinging bunches of crap.  One need only take a look at the archives found at  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bodywork_politics/ .

I'm glad you have led a gentle life Laura, and haven't experience this kind of debate before (BTW Laura, I read and enjoy your blog, certainly one of the more useful sources of information pertaining to the issues in the massage industry).

 

It is ironic that the most heated discussion in the thread came on Valentine's Day, as noted by Ezekiel OBrien.  I have been at National conventions where this type of exchange occurred in an AGM (not in the States). After the meeting... [read more after the jump]

I agree about the need for civility.  Having said that, not everybody appreciates it and some see it as weakness.   Personally, I am grateful to Mike for having said some of the things that he said and I will come out and openly admit it. It's good to know that there are people out there who will stand up to the bullying and mocking of MTs.  Mike apologized but there have not been any apologies from anyone else and that should say a lot.  Thank you Laura.

 

 

Emmanuel,

Would you elaborate on what it is that you are grateful for Mike saying?

Who was bullying and mocking MT's? All involved in the discussion are MTs, except Christopher Moyer, who I believe was threatened with violence - by an MT.

 

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