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I hope this gets everyone's attention, and I don't give a rip if anyone replies or not. I am posting this separately from the previous discussions on here that have deteriorated into the most vile insulting and mudslinging bunch of crap I have ever seen in my life.

 

It is distressing to me that massage therapists, researchers in the field, and anyone else associated with our profession in any way stoop to this kind of behavior. Not only is it not a productive discussion, it is starting to sound like a bunch of politicians on tv with their insulting of each other's credentials, standards, and abilities.

 

I am not interested in shame and blame, so who started it and who said what is irrelevant. I urge you all to remember that we are ALL in this profession because we have a desire to help people through the awesome power of touch, and that is what it is about.

 

We don't have to agree. We can all agree to disagree. The personal attacks, the character attacks, the arguing over which country does it better, is ridiculous, petty, and childish. This is not the first time this has happened. It is the main reason I avoid this site most of the time.

 

I am no better, or no worse than anyone else, and everybody is entitled to an opinion. That's what forums are meant for, so that people with differing opinions have a place to discuss those, but so much of what has gone on here is not a civil discussion. When I see people that I know to be hard-working, caring people, and people that I know to be brilliant minds and hard-working as well get into these mudslinging insulting arguments on here, I personally find that to be a bad reflection of what we are supposed to be about.

 

I don't have to be bad in order for you to be good. You don't have to be a failure just so someone else can be a success. One country who does things differently is not better or worse, they are just different. People get caught up in national pride, and that's okay, but it does not have to deteriorate into what some of these discussions have deteriorated into. Someone makes a comment, someone takes it the wrong way, or out of context, and it just goes downhill from there.

 

When you're writing like this, you can't hear people's tone of voice, you can't see their body language, and what might be civil if we were all in a room together comes off as a bunch of superior b*******, and one's just as guilty as the other. When anyone has anything intelligent to say, someone else seizes upon that and uses it as an excuse for the next round of arguing.

 

I wish everyone of you peace and prosperity, regardless of where you are from, what you do, or how you do it. We are all equal by virtue of the fact that we are all human and it's too bad that people are fighting like a pack of junkyard dogs instead of having a civil disagreement. I can't participate in it and I won't.

 

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well said
I appreciate this Laura. I am sorry for my part. I am guilty as well. I will not answer any more of their questions if baited. I will try to give facts again and not my opinions of those that oppose. I have closed the discussion on America Leading. It has digressed.
Thanks Laura, I appreciate your ability to articulate this.

Oh no... Sadly, there has been more vile insulting and mudslinging bunches of crap.  One need only take a look at the archives found at  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bodywork_politics/ .  The posts are open to the public.  To post, you must join the group.  

 

Mudslinging and crap is, again sadly, much of what politics is made up of.  In the archives of the list is the best point/counter point piece I know of.   The piece can also be found at http://iscaaty.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_archive.html  It is the last post for February/2006 called Licensing: Two Sides of the Political Coin.  I side with the anti-amta/licensing forces. The argument held amta at bay, in GA, for awhile.   

 

No association of rubbers.  http://tinyurl.com/4s3xfrb is where you will find NORMM...  

 

The Rev

Laura, the problems that you are highlighting are not simply the result of incivility.  Sure, civility is better than incivility, but civility is of little value if it is not accompanied by integrity, logic, and tolerance.

 

-CM

Period !

Thank you Laura. One important fact that folks do not realize. When the mud slinging is going on, we can only speak of ourselves and our own experiences. So we are only huring ourselves not the other people.

 

Thank you Micheal for the Apology! That was important! "Let It Begin With Me" is such an  important slogan. Thank you for always setting the example.  Everyone have a great weekend!

 

 Love and Hugs to you all.

"I don't have to be bad in order for you to be good. You don't have to be a failure just so someone else can be a success. One country who does things differently is not better or worse, they are just different."

 

Well said.....

I am posting this separately from the previous discussions on here that have deteriorated into the most vile insulting and mudslinging bunch of crap I have ever seen in my life.

I'm with The Rev on this point:

Sadly, there has been more vile insulting and mudslinging bunches of crap.  One need only take a look at the archives found at  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bodywork_politics/ .

I'm glad you have led a gentle life Laura, and haven't experience this kind of debate before (BTW Laura, I read and enjoy your blog, certainly one of the more useful sources of information pertaining to the issues in the massage industry).

 

It is ironic that the most heated discussion in the thread came on Valentine's Day, as noted by Ezekiel OBrien.  I have been at National conventions where this type of exchange occurred in an AGM (not in the States). After the meeting... [read more after the jump]

I agree about the need for civility.  Having said that, not everybody appreciates it and some see it as weakness.   Personally, I am grateful to Mike for having said some of the things that he said and I will come out and openly admit it. It's good to know that there are people out there who will stand up to the bullying and mocking of MTs.  Mike apologized but there have not been any apologies from anyone else and that should say a lot.  Thank you Laura.

 

 

Emmanuel,

Would you elaborate on what it is that you are grateful for Mike saying?

Who was bullying and mocking MT's? All involved in the discussion are MTs, except Christopher Moyer, who I believe was threatened with violence - by an MT.

 

Matthew,

 

what went on here the past few days is just another eruption of the same underlying dynamic that has been present on this board and elsewhere for a while. The topics may appear as 'more hours' vs. 'less hours', holism vs. reductionism, science-based vs. the ineffable, old science vs. new science, etc, but the dynamic I am talking about is one one of elitism and superiority coming from a small group (which includes Christopher) that believes that their viewpoint is the sole path to professional salvation. 

 

We all have different ways of perceiving the world around us, there is not question about that. We also have different ways in how we would like to see massage therapy evolve as a profession. Is one way better than another? I think the answer is “it depends”, and that is based on what the objectives are. The least we can do is to have productive discussions.

 

Often, discussions are doomed because of the attitudes I mentioned above but also because of generalizations.

 

The word “MTs”, for example. Who is an MT? An MT can be an eighteen year old who just finished massage school and works forty hours per week without breaks at the local spa, a forty-something owner of a massage clinic who also does a couple massages per week, the president of a Massage Therapy non-profit, or the dean of a local community college who has a massage license and wants to start a massage program at her college. Not only are all these MTs different, but also based on what they do and where they are in life, their financial interests and motivations may be different as well. Who is the MT that best represents the profession?

 

Or the word “massageprofessionals”: this site has not only MTs, but also employers, CEU teachers, vendors, and even non-massage professionals such as the skeptic guy who dropped in last year in Christopher's discussion. I think it is flawed to think that all people on this site are similar, or even that we have the same motivations.  Sometimes our interests may be at odds with each other.  

 

Another great over-simplification in recent posts is about how “in Canada we do this” or “in the U.S. we do that”. As Mike correctly pointed out, there is no “in Canada” or “in the U.S.” because there are so many differences at a state/provincial/local level; those statements are not factual, they are make-belief. Even if something works in one place it may not work in another, especially when you compare a country that still has a Queen and a hierarchical/top-down approach such as Canada to the U.S. where states have rights that can overturn federal policies.

 

Going back to your question, Mike said a lot of things. In speaking out, he pointed out some of the flaws in the generalizations and took a stand with creating the Massage Therapy Alliance. He strongly believed in something and did something about it. He apologized for the tone and some of the things he said, but again when you have valid concerns which are dismissed by someone saying “you are from the Deep South” , it takes a lot of self-discipline not to say “come down here and I 'll show you 'Deep South'”.

 

 

 



Matthew Stewart said:

Emmanuel,

Would you elaborate on what it is that you are grateful for Mike saying?

Who was bullying and mocking MT's? All involved in the discussion are MTs, except Christopher Moyer, who I believe was threatened with violence - by an MT.

 

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