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Unlicenced massage practices in NY
http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/scare_the_rub_We3eYx3nAm4NYKM...
All LMT's, Please read this article.
Is there ABMP NY. What can we do about these "Foot Rub" places opening up everywhere in NY. Unlicenced and hurting clients.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Marilyn St.John on
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If these people are "unlicensed" and NY has a licensing requirement (which I'm sure it does) I guess that's for the state's massage therapy ordinance to work out, so some lobbying is in order. That said, I have been to a "no frills" oriental establishment in upstate NY and licensed or not, I received a fabulous massage. Based purely on the article you provided, I don't see a problem. My office is in a chiropractic center and I have similar fees and few frills. I am not a spa. Massage Envy in this area charges similar fees and I haven't even had a decent massage there yet.
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Hi Marilyn,
I'm sorry you don't see a problem when Reporter mentions "happy ending" in the article about massage.
It takes minumum 2 years of college, $ 25.000 and passing State Board to earn LMT in NY. I take pride in my profession and do not want to see unlicenced people injuring clients.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on
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We need our organizations to lobby to get foot massage under massage licensing. If caught they can already be arrested for prostitution but why shouldn't they be required to meet the same requirements we meet? They are rapidly spreading across the U.S. providing in many cases employment for illegals with little English. Many places allow them to work as unlicensed trainees under the establishment owner's esthetician or cosmetology license. L.A. finally decided this is not the same as the massage a cosmetologist does following a pedicure.
Foot massage must meet massage license standards.
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Hi Daniel,
Do you know what exactly was done in L.A. to stop it.
It's terrible in NY and LI. It's a felony to practise massage without a licence in NY state. But these Foot Rub places just keep opening up, performing full body treatments. If one gets closed - it reopens a month later couple blocks over.
Is there ABMP NY chapter?
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Permalink Reply by Lisa on
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I think that it's a shame that all you got from that article was the part of the "happy ending" which happened to be a couple of sentences that inferred that only "SOME “rub and tug” outfits really do offer a happy endings". The gist of the article was that you CAN get an affordable but high quality massage...something that has been debated about for awhile on here.
I didn't see anything mentioned about "unlicensed massage practices in NY" at all. and the fact is that many of the "happy ending" MTs ARE licensed. So unless you're ready to take them all on, I would focus more on YOUR practice and what YOU offer and less on everyone else. Bottom line, if someone offers a happy ending, it's their business and they will get the type of clients they get. When you don't offer that you may get clients looking for it, but once they realize you don't offer that service they don't come in or come back. to me it all works out for all of us in the end.
Aiste Bella, LMT said:Hi Marilyn,
I'm sorry you don't see a problem when Reporter mentions "happy ending" in the article about massage.
It takes minumum 2 years of college, $ 25.000 and passing State Board to earn LMT in NY. I take pride in my profession and do not want to see unlicenced people injuring clients.
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A pretty inflammatory post for what seems to be a rather tame article. They used the term Massuese throughout, which irks me more than acknowleding that happy endings exist.
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Sorry, I guess I'm a bit naive...I didn't see the term "happy ending" mentioned in the article...and after re-reading it, still don't. Do you know for a fact they're injuring people? How? That's a different matter. 'So maybe I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I have to agree with Lisa on this one: Maybe it's best to concentrate on what it is you have to offer and try not to worry so much about the real or perceived competition out there, because believe me, there's lots. There are enough people who need massage therapy to go around. Since I had a great experience at (I assume) a place such as the ones that brought about this article ~ with no "happy ending" alluded to nor offered ~ I shall stick to my guns on this one. Should I boycott my pedicure place because they are all Viet Namese (and as American as I am) in favor of a place that hires only local beauty-school-trained people? No thanks, and no polish please! It's the best bargain in town. Maybe there's something to be said for that type of marketing.
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Permalink Reply by Emmanuel Bistas on
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Aiste, I think you have the right to be concerned. You go to school, you pay thousands of dollars in tuition, you pass your licensing exam, take a risk by quitting your day job to open your business, and then you have places that operate under different rules. Sure they can charge less, and if they employ undocumented workers they can charge even less.
In Chicago, the highest-rated massage joint on yelp.com is one of those places. They don't just offer foot massage, they do full-body. There is no draping, no intake forms, no consideration of contraindications. Pretty much all the things that you learned in school do not apply in these sessions. The formula seems to be "the more it hurts, the better" and people are loving it. In Illinois "asian bodywork" falls outside of the massage licensing act, which makes it more difficult to apply the law to some of those establishments.
We don't need to get caught up in the terms used in the article or engage in stereotyping. But really, what we should consider here, is that if you have establishments performing massage outside of the law, without their employees being licensed or even legal, then what next?
Look what is happening now in Chicago. There have been so many incidents of human trafficking and prostitution in the past year, that an alderman is trying to zone all massage establishments away from residential areas and into industrial or commercial areas. Many of those establishments would not even be in existence if they were forced to hire licensed professionals.
If you ignore the problem, it becomes a much bigger issue and eventually impacts you in a much bigger way. You are doing the right thing by raising the issue. Contact ABMP. They don't have a local chapter, but they do have a government relations person and may be of assistance. You should also contact your NY State Board of Health.
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Thank you Emmanuel,
Only therapists from the states affected by this problem, actually can understand it. AMTA NY will be officially responding to the article. And hopefully more actions will be taken. There is a way to report these illegal practices to the office of professions. And Police does go out and close them down and arrests are made. But these places keep opening up. If it continues and spreads through other states, there will be no need for ABMP or AMTA. Unlicenced therapists don't buy insurance.
And yes, there are reports about injuries. My girlfriend LMT is treating person injured by unlicenced practitioner.
Emmanuel Bistas said:Aiste, I think you have the right to be concerned. You go to school, you pay thousands of dollars in tuition, you pass your licensing exam, take a risk by quitting your day job to open your business, and then you have places that operate under different rules. Sure they can charge less, and if they employ undocumented workers they can charge even less.
In Chicago, the highest-rated massage joint on yelp.com is one of those places. They don't just offer foot massage, they do full-body. There is no draping, no intake forms, no consideration of contraindications. Pretty much all the things that you learned in school do not apply in these sessions. The formula seems to be "the more it hurts, the better" and people are loving it. In Illinois "asian bodywork" falls outside of the massage licensing act, which makes it more difficult to apply the law to some of those establishments.
We don't need to get caught up in the terms used in the article or engage in stereotyping. But really, what we should consider here, is that if you have establishments performing massage outside of the law, without their employees being licensed or even legal, then what next?
Look what is happening now in Chicago. There have been so many incidents of human trafficking and prostitution in the past year, that an alderman is trying to zone all massage establishments away from residential areas and into industrial or commercial areas. Many of those establishments would not even be in existence if they were forced to hire licensed professionals.
If you ignore the problem, it becomes a much bigger issue and eventually impacts you in a much bigger way. You are doing the right thing by raising the issue. Contact ABMP. They don't have a local chapter, but they do have a government relations person and may be of assistance. You should also contact your NY State Board of Health.
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I read the article again and AGAIN...where does it say anything about the places being unlicensed? To Emmanuel's point the article specifically says:
“...When you walk in, you feel like you’re in a doctor’s office.”
The clinical treatment doesn’t end there. After you’ve signed a release form and filled out a medical history, you’re ushered into the communal back room.
This doesn't sound to me like unlicensed OR "...no draping, no intake forms, no consideration of contraindications."
and again, I'll state that it has been my experience in what I've read that many of the MTs that ARE offering "extra" ARE licensed.
Aiste Bella, LMT said:Thank you Emmanuel,
Only therapists from the states affected by this problem, actually can understand it. AMTA NY will be officially responding to the article. And hopefully more actions will be taken. There is a way to report these illegal practices to the office of professions. And Police does go out and close them down and arrests are made. But these places keep opening up. If it continues and spreads through other states, there will be no need for ABMP or AMTA. Unlicenced therapists don't buy insurance.
And yes, there are reports about injuries. My girlfriend LMT is treating person injured by unlicenced practitioner.
Emmanuel Bistas said:Aiste, I think you have the right to be concerned. You go to school, you pay thousands of dollars in tuition, you pass your licensing exam, take a risk by quitting your day job to open your business, and then you have places that operate under different rules. Sure they can charge less, and if they employ undocumented workers they can charge even less.
In Chicago, the highest-rated massage joint on yelp.com is one of those places. They don't just offer foot massage, they do full-body. There is no draping, no intake forms, no consideration of contraindications. Pretty much all the things that you learned in school do not apply in these sessions. The formula seems to be "the more it hurts, the better" and people are loving it. In Illinois "asian bodywork" falls outside of the massage licensing act, which makes it more difficult to apply the law to some of those establishments.
We don't need to get caught up in the terms used in the article or engage in stereotyping. But really, what we should consider here, is that if you have establishments performing massage outside of the law, without their employees being licensed or even legal, then what next?
Look what is happening now in Chicago. There have been so many incidents of human trafficking and prostitution in the past year, that an alderman is trying to zone all massage establishments away from residential areas and into industrial or commercial areas. Many of those establishments would not even be in existence if they were forced to hire licensed professionals.
If you ignore the problem, it becomes a much bigger issue and eventually impacts you in a much bigger way. You are doing the right thing by raising the issue. Contact ABMP. They don't have a local chapter, but they do have a government relations person and may be of assistance. You should also contact your NY State Board of Health.
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From the article everything seems ok. Just cheap competition. The workers in these places are probably the same as here in California. They are here to make money to send home to China. They are helping out Mom and Dad who are on a too small government pension or to buy a home. They may have come under the pretense of marriage only to disappear into the Chinese massage network. Since they do not set their hours and work to long for the boss to do anything else they must be called employees not independent contractors. They want to optimise their income, so do not pay taxes or carry insurance. These are business law violations and mean unfair competition. It also is part of siphoning off dollarsto China to the tune of over 3 million a year in L.A. alone.
Is this just ordinary business? People are willing to look the other way just to get such a bargain.
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Daniel, you are right. This article is big part of the issue: reporter does not know (or maybe intentionally) is advertising illegal practices. If you see sign "Back Rub and Foot Rub" here in NY - you will be treated by unlicenced. They think, if they are writing Rub instead of Massage - it's not covered by the same laws. It's sad that not everyone in the States lives under the same laws.
Daniel Cohen said:From the article everything seems ok. Just cheap competition. The workers in these places are probably the same as here in California. They are here to make money to send home to China. They are helping out Mom and Dad who are on a too small government pension or to buy a home. They may have come under the pretense of marriage only to disappear into the Chinese massage network. Since they do not set their hours and work to long for the boss to do anything else they must be called employees not independent contractors. They want to optimise their income, so do not pay taxes or carry insurance. These are business law violations and mean unfair competition. It also is part of siphoning off dollarsto China to the tune of over 3 million a year in L.A. alone.
Is this just ordinary business? People are willing to look the other way just to get such a bargain.
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