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Theraputic Massage ?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Cindy Greenwood on
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Just focus on your work.
Everybody has an opinion...
don't let yourself get worked up over something that is not yours to fix.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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An opinion? So then some therapists actually believe that therapeutic massage has to be very uncomfortable and painful, in order to be successful or effective?
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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on
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Hi, Gordon. You know me, for the benefit of others, I am a 2nd year massage student. I've encountered what may be a local oddity, or it may be occurring everywhere. Repeat clients who utilize the day clinic want Swedish--relaxation stuff exclusively. Repeat clients who utilize night clinic like it very deep, very hard--even those who tell the therapist at start of session that, today, they "have no complaints to work, just want to relax."
My analysis of this difference is that day clinic student therapists have just finished Swedish, their first modality. Night class therapists have completed deep tissue and are then studying NMT and MFR--and eager to try out their new skills. The night instructor who I suspect can make a paraplegic walk and the blind see (kidding) insists that his students get very deep; therefore, clients who are regulars to his clinics expect very deep massage--a 7 or so on the 10 scale.
Sorta like this: (hope the photo loads)
So... am I right in assuming that the type of MT preferred is dependent on prior (good or bad) experience?
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YES...If they come into see me I often hear..I dont like deep tissue massage or I dont like sweedish massage. The ones that like deep tissue are tired of paying big money just to have oil rubbed on them..and the ones that dont want deep tissue dont want to be beaten up during a massage.. If you are doing deep tissue work, NMT, Trigger point, or whatever you wanna call it...the deepest you go is HURT GOOD. And I explain that too the client..Because more then enough think that theraputic massage is supose to hurt..Because thats what they experience.. Breath through the pain...all that kind of stuff... I explain to them that a healing touch hurts good...Its a certain pressure. You want them to say.."Oh gawd thats sore! But it feels so good, DONT STOP.".. The part that hurts is your body telling you that somethings wrong(contracted muscles or whatever). That part that feels good, is your body telling you that what the therapists is doing is healing...Thats why it hurts good.. If you press too hard.. It hurts like hell.. And yea you can help people that way, but its very primitive ineficient.. Like two steps forward, one step back.. but whats happening is.. You maybe releasing the deeper layer trigger point but at the same time you are damaging the upper layer tissue. Takes way longer to heal someone, and thats if they stick around to get healed..a lot of clients do,because they dont know any better...You dont want to do that You dont want to do that if you want to give an efficient healing massage....The hurt good is the body signalling the healing touch. I had a client, maybe a couple months ago that had bruses up and down her leg... She said the massage was so painful,but was told it hurts because she needs it...Talk about an unconcussions body worker...Thats what Im talking about.. How often do I hear..Well I have a sore upper back but I dont want therapeutic massage today...I just want to feel good and relax.. I say ok. Then I do therapeutic massage. And more often then not..They are elated and shocked to find that their pain is gone or greatly dissipated.. Hope that answers your question.?.. This is my truth, my experience. PS- A good Sweedish massage is not soft and mushy..Its firm( different for each individual) and deep, and Oh it hurt good !
Gary W Addis said:
Hi, Gordon. You know me, for the benefit of others, I am a 2nd year massage student. I've encountered what may be a local oddity, or it may be occurring everywhere. Repeat clients who utilize the day clinic want Swedish--relaxation stuff exclusively. Repeat clients who utilize night clinic like it very deep, very hard--even those who tell the therapist at start of session that, today, they "have no complaints to work, just want to relax."
My analysis of this difference is that day clinic student therapists have just finished Swedish, their first modality. Night class therapists have completed deep tissue and are then studying NMT and MFR--and eager to try out their new skills. The night instructor who I suspect can make a paraplegic walk and the blind see (kidding) insists that his students get very deep; therefore, clients who are regulars to his clinics expect very deep massage--a 7 or so on the 10 scale.
Sorta like this: (hope the photo loads)
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the scale 1 to 10 is too intellectual... Hurt good.. Thats the number. Its spot on that way(the pressure).. Its easy.. No need for a number scale.
Gary W Addis said:
Hi, Gordon. You know me, for the benefit of others, I am a 2nd year massage student. I've encountered what may be a local oddity, or it may be occurring everywhere. Repeat clients who utilize the day clinic want Swedish--relaxation stuff exclusively. Repeat clients who utilize night clinic like it very deep, very hard--even those who tell the therapist at start of session that, today, they "have no complaints to work, just want to relax."
My analysis of this difference is that day clinic student therapists have just finished Swedish, their first modality. Night class therapists have completed deep tissue and are then studying NMT and MFR--and eager to try out their new skills. The night instructor who I suspect can make a paraplegic walk and the blind see (kidding) insists that his students get very deep; therefore, clients who are regulars to his clinics expect very deep massage--a 7 or so on the 10 scale.
Sorta like this: (hope the photo loads)
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Obviously. But being critical of them doesn't benefit you or your client.
They have an opinion and philosophy as do you.
You think they are wrong and you are right.And vice versa.
Just do what you do, don't worry about them and you will keep those clients that they didn't,
Educate your client not by bad-mouthing other therapists, but by SHOWING your clients what you can do for them.
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Gordon J. Wallis said:An opinion? So then some therapists actually believe that therapeutic massage has to be very uncomfortable and painful, in order to be successful or effective?
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Cindy, I haven't noticed Gordon bad mouthing any other therapist. He made a generalized statement that SOME insensitive therapists hurt their clients and SOME don't use enough pressure.
Undoubtedly true, wouldn't you say?
Cindy Greenwood said:Obviously. But being critical of them doesn't benefit you or your client.
They have an opinion and philosophy as do you.
You think they are wrong and you are right.And vice versa.
Just do what you do, don't worry about them and you will keep those clients that they didn't,
Educate your client not by bad-mouthing other therapists, but by SHOWING your clients what you can do for them.
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Gordon J. Wallis said:An opinion? So then some therapists actually believe that therapeutic massage has to be very uncomfortable and painful, in order to be successful or effective?
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Permalink Reply by cesar bayeng on
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Hi Gordon
In my practice, each client has their own understanding about massage because of what they heard from people who has not enough knowledge about it. Here in my country you're surprise to hear them say reflex when they meant massage, so yours is normal. Agree at first and try to explain more when you made the connection!
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Permalink Reply by Joyce on
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Hi Gordon -- The very first rule that was emphasized in our very first MT class by the owner of the school is that "Massage should never hurt!" And ongoing in our training we are encouraged to give feedback to our fellow students as we work on each other, so that we can learn the proper way to give a complete, and yes, deep massage, without hurting. We started off with light effleurage and have gradually built upon that. We are now learning how to get very deep into the tissue and "follow" it...once the superficial layers have been warmed up properly. One teacher showed us how this worked by using cornstarch and water in a bucket. The mixture was quite thick. What we learned is that if you simply rest your fingers on the cornstarch mixture they sink to the bottom, but if you try to force it, the mixture resists. We were shown how to actually punch the mixture with our fists and it was almost like hitting a wall. Very interesting, I thought, and I remember that when I'm working on someone. It's amazing how the body of the client "accepts" your touch once it senses there is no threat. It just seems to soften and give.
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Joyce, deep tissue massage-- NMT, MFR, even vigorous Swedish-- will cause some pain. The "oh that hurts sooo good" kind of pain. But, yes, your instructor is correct that you excite the guarding response if you go faster than the tissue can relax. A single myofascial release sweep of one side of a tight back can consume an entire hour session.
However, no matter how slow you go, active triggers points by definition are tender to the touch...are painful when compressed... should elicit the "oh that hurts so good" moan from the client when compressed. As Gordon remarked (and you confirmed), too much pressure is counter-productive. But too little (as Boris Prilutsky and others reminded me a few months ago) can transmogrify a trigger point into a chronic degeneration of the muscle fiber.
Although most trigger points are dime-sized or smaller, occasionally one will be much bigger; you have to locate the exquisitely tender entrance to those large, painful trigger points, then apply just the right amount of pressure, and sink in a silly centimeter at a time as the layers of tissue melt. But there will be some pain involved. IOW, you can't love a trigger point to death.
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Gary, I get it. I know the "hurts so good" from personal experience and I agree with you. I have also had professionals who were into their ego versus being client centered and who really hurt me. Instead of taking responsibility for their actions they passed it off as appropriate and that I was simply not knowledgeable. Not pleasant. :)
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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Gary, I love it that you used "transmogrify"! I grew up with Calvin and Hobbes and love the reference!!
Gordon, I think you are really onto something here. I think it's not OK for massage therapists to think that any level of pain is necessary. We've had this discussion on other threads, and we know that these people are actually doing damage to their clients. It's possible to go very deep without undue pain or damage, and it's possible to get good releases from light pressure (CranioSacral Therapy, for example). It all comes down to tuning into the client and listening to the tissues. And feedback from the client!
Also for Gordon, as a result of some of your comments on other threads I've given up the "scale of 0-10" thing I used to do all the time and now just simply tell people that they are in control of the pressure and not to put up with anything they don't want to deal with. I tell them that if they have to "breathe through it", it's too much. It's been working much better, with more simple communication and better end results.
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