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Just dumping
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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on
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$14 to $17 per HOUR? They must be staffing with massaging chimps or doing it with machines. Two years of college, $31k in student loans, I don't think I'll be giving many $14 hour-long massages.
One of my friends works in a chiro office. She is paid $30 per massage--10 minutes or 50 minutes depending on client need. One of my instructors gets a treatment room in a chiro office in exchange for once weekly massage of the chiro or staff person of his choice.
Daniel Cohen said:Glad to hear the professions coexist and are compatible there. In California it has been a love hate relationship. Chiropractors are the largest employer of Massage Therapists here. A Chiropractor is allowed to use their license as an umbrella for massage and open two facilities with their one license. They don't even need a trained MT to advertise licensed massage. Often they train for what they want and many of the "Chiropractic" offices near my place do no Chiropractic services. The usual rate paid is $14 to $17 per (hour)massage (usually deep tissue). There is no need to refer out because they are operating their own. The California Chiropractic Association was the last major opponent to State Licensed/Certified Massage in California and the reason it is a certificate from an authorized certifying company rather than licensed by a state Massage Board.
The bruises are still sensitive here.
I think it is enough to say what we have done without disparaging others no matter what our personal opinions are.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Daniel are they billing insurance companies for work from those people that are making $14 to $17 an hour in those offices? Or is it just private pay clients and patients? If so, I wonder how much?
Gary W Addis said:$14 to $17 per HOUR? They must be staffing with massaging chimps or doing it with machines. Two years of college, $31k in student loans, I don't think I'll be giving many $14 hour-long massages.
One of my friends works in a chiro office. She is paid $30 per massage--10 minutes or 50 minutes depending on client need. One of my instructors gets a treatment room in a chiro office in exchange for once weekly massage of the chiro or staff person of his choice.
Daniel Cohen said:Glad to hear the professions coexist and are compatible there. In California it has been a love hate relationship. Chiropractors are the largest employer of Massage Therapists here. A Chiropractor is allowed to use their license as an umbrella for massage and open two facilities with their one license. They don't even need a trained MT to advertise licensed massage. Often they train for what they want and many of the "Chiropractic" offices near my place do no Chiropractic services. The usual rate paid is $14 to $17 per (hour)massage (usually deep tissue). There is no need to refer out because they are operating their own. The California Chiropractic Association was the last major opponent to State Licensed/Certified Massage in California and the reason it is a certificate from an authorized certifying company rather than licensed by a state Massage Board.
The bruises are still sensitive here.
I think it is enough to say what we have done without disparaging others no matter what our personal opinions are.
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Daniel, won't that change in CA when the state licensing is fully implemented? In MS, chiros & PTs & doctors may give massage during their normal treatments, but they aren't allowed to advertise and to accept clients strictly for massage unless that also hold an MTB license.
I've had mixed experience with chiropractic, some good some just a rip off series that did nothing for me. My visits to PT offices have been a laughably nothing-- five minute sessions to demo a stretch or exercise. They are really good at restoring mobility to partially paralyzed...getting people up and moving, but for full return to usefulness of the limb requires a skilled, perceptive personal trainer, who will push the client into doing his/her physical best, without creating further damage or causing a relapse.
Re bad mouthing drs or chiros, where else to do it but here among other MTs; out in the public arena would be a bad thing for one's reputation and destructive to existing or future doctor-therapist relationships, but here among friends, venting can be a good thing for one's sanity.
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Permalink Reply by Micah Goodman on
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Sadly, in Texas you can work under a Doctor's license to do massage, meaning if you work for a Doctor or a Chiropractor you do not have to be a licensed massage therapist to work. While some Doctor's and Chiropractors require a license many others do not. Most Chiros' and Doctor's pay between 15 and 20 dollars an hour to their therapists here locally. I had one lady who came to me after receiving a massage at her Chiropractor's office. It literally looked as if some one bent her over a pole and punched her in the ass for thirty minutes. The entire gluteal area was a deep purple. I told her she needed to return to her Chiro's office and make him aware of what happened. While some in the medical profession understand the benefits of massage and integrate massage into their practice, far more are concerned with paying off their student loans and making the car payment on the new Jaguar rather than what is truly best for their clients.
For those therapists who have managed to find a great working relationship with a good doctor or Chiropractor then I say, Congratulations! But, by in large the medical profession has allowed the almighty dollar to influence purely medical decisions.
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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Gary, I get what you are saying about venting. However, you may not be aware that this site is available to the public and will show up in Google searches. It wouldn't be a challenge for a potential client or anyone else to Google our name and find this site. I just tried it with me; the first link is for an artist with the same name; the second link was my website. Links 3 & 4 were another forum I'm on. Link 5 was my page for this site. Not at all difficult for someone to find and read everything I've posted. So I think it's important to understand that professionalism matters. Laura Allen is correct, and her point is well made and valid.
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Therese, I understand your point. Micah, Gordon and Daniel make valid points as well. That, while most doctors, chiropractors, etc, behave ethically with their massage therapists and pay them fairly, some few do not.
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Oh I agree! In any career field there is a bell curve of ability, ethics, etc. But this is not just about payment - it's about the comments about doctors and chiropractors in general.
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There are a lot of chiropractors and medical doctors out there that arn't doing a good job. People know that...And I have noticed it... being in this field for a long time.. So I'm commenting on it... Im not mentioning any names for goodness sakes.. But its bad healing work when a person gets an unnecessary carpal tunnel surgery.. Or gets stuck on an expensive treatment plan for weeks or even months when the real problem is easily resolved in minutes. That kind of thing happens a lot I see it... You actually will find yourself working on those people....There was even a comment in here that they were told by a Doctor that she needed carpal tunnel surgery.. And she declined, and fixed her self, with massage and stretching...How many other people do you think there are, that dont dont have the where with all to realize that?....And don't you think A Medical doctor should realize that.?..If they really know what they are doing? Thats all Im talking about. Yea Im better then, those people....And it bothers me.. because I'm just a massage therapist. Hmm, I said I was over with this thread? lol
Gary W Addis said:Therese, I understand your point. Micah, Gordon and Daniel make valid points as well. That, while most doctors, chiropractors, etc, behave ethically with their massage therapists and pay them fairly, some few do not.
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http://saveyourself.ca/tutorials/trigger-points.php I wish a lot more health care providers would know this information... I mean really know it.. It would make a difference.
Get this book on your kindle or at amazon.com Muscle Doctor bye Gabor Lingauer ..I dont agree with everything he says.. but, he makes some good points.. And interesting read for a massage therapists.
Gordon J. Wallis said:There are a lot of chiropractors and medical doctors out there that arn't doing a good job. People know that...And I have noticed it... being in this field for a long time.. So I'm commenting on it... Im not mentioning any names for goodness sakes.. But its bad healing work when a person gets an unnecessary carpal tunnel surgery.. Or gets stuck on an expensive treatment plan for weeks or even months when the real problem is easily resolved in minutes. That kind of thing happens a lot I see it... You actually will find yourself working on those people....There was even a comment in here from a person that was told by a Doctor that she needed carpal tunnel surgery.. And she declined, and fixed her self, with massage and stretching...How many other people do you think there are, that dont dont have the where with all to realize that?....And don't you think A Medical doctor should realize that.?..If they really know what they are doing? Thats all Im talking about. Yea Im better then, those people....And it bothers me.. because I'm just a massage therapist. Hmm, I said I was over with this thread? lol
Gary W Addis said:Therese, I understand your point. Micah, Gordon and Daniel make valid points as well. That, while most doctors, chiropractors, etc, behave ethically with their massage therapists and pay them fairly, some few do not.
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Gordon, I am amazed. You've done it again, brother. That is a great resource, for the uninformed general public, for MDs and PTs, and for already skilled massage therapists. The introduction itself is good info. Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy the entire book right now.
Guy, how do you find so many great links?
Gordon J. Wallis said:http://saveyourself.ca/tutorials/trigger-points.php I wish a lot more health care providers would know this information... I mean really know it.. It would make a difference.
Get this book on your kindle or at amazon.com Muscle Doctor bye Gabor Lingauer ..I dont agree with everything he says.. but, he makes some good points.. And interesting read for a massage therapists.
Gordon J. Wallis said:There are a lot of chiropractors and medical doctors out there that arn't doing a good job. People know that...And I have noticed it... being in this field for a long time.. So I'm commenting on it... Im not mentioning any names for goodness sakes.. But its bad healing work when a person gets an unnecessary carpal tunnel surgery.. Or gets stuck on an expensive treatment plan for weeks or even months when the real problem is easily resolved in minutes. That kind of thing happens a lot I see it... You actually will find yourself working on those people....There was even a comment in here from a person that was told by a Doctor that she needed carpal tunnel surgery.. And she declined, and fixed her self, with massage and stretching...How many other people do you think there are, that dont dont have the where with all to realize that?....And don't you think A Medical doctor should realize that.?..If they really know what they are doing? Thats all Im talking about. Yea Im better then, those people....And it bothers me.. because I'm just a massage therapist. Hmm, I said I was over with this thread? lol
Gary W Addis said:Therese, I understand your point. Micah, Gordon and Daniel make valid points as well. That, while most doctors, chiropractors, etc, behave ethically with their massage therapists and pay them fairly, some few do not.
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Thats a great link.. The intro alone is very informative. And just because someone has a doctors title doesnt mean he knows what I know.. Ive been doing this kind of work for almost three decades. I know the material in that link... And its all backed up by scientific research. That's why I got excited when I discovered this site. I can share what I know, and what Ive experienced. And what I know, has been well known for a long time. Read that link. Lots of people are getting the wrong kind of care because the proper information is still not common knowledge. If I wrote the a national certification test for massage therapists..They would have to know the information in that link in order to get their license.. Thats why from my perspective..They need to revamp the whole massage licensing system... Make it more real. Its like this.. If you have too people. Regardless of their professional title.. And one knows the material in that link, and one doesn't...Who are you going to be better off seeing if your back hurts? That's all I'm trying to get across... And I had to be a little dramatic and politically incorrect, in order to make that point....You guys, I really love what I do. I think we all do. Its just upsetting for me to accidentally have someone on my table that's been getting the wrong kind of care for a long time. That's all.
Gary W Addis said:Gordon, I am amazed. You've done it again, brother. That is a great resource, for the uninformed general public, for MDs and PTs, and for already skilled massage therapists. The introduction itself is good info. Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy the entire book right now.
Guy, how do you find so many great links?
Gordon J. Wallis said:http://saveyourself.ca/tutorials/trigger-points.php I wish a lot more health care providers would know this information... I mean really know it.. It would make a difference.
Get this book on your kindle or at amazon.com Muscle Doctor bye Gabor Lingauer ..I dont agree with everything he says.. but, he makes some good points.. And interesting read for a massage therapists.
Gordon J. Wallis said:There are a lot of chiropractors and medical doctors out there that arn't doing a good job. People know that...And I have noticed it... being in this field for a long time.. So I'm commenting on it... Im not mentioning any names for goodness sakes.. But its bad healing work when a person gets an unnecessary carpal tunnel surgery.. Or gets stuck on an expensive treatment plan for weeks or even months when the real problem is easily resolved in minutes. That kind of thing happens a lot I see it... You actually will find yourself working on those people....There was even a comment in here from a person that was told by a Doctor that she needed carpal tunnel surgery.. And she declined, and fixed her self, with massage and stretching...How many other people do you think there are, that dont dont have the where with all to realize that?....And don't you think A Medical doctor should realize that.?..If they really know what they are doing? Thats all Im talking about. Yea Im better then, those people....And it bothers me.. because I'm just a massage therapist. Hmm, I said I was over with this thread? lol
Gary W Addis said:Therese, I understand your point. Micah, Gordon and Daniel make valid points as well. That, while most doctors, chiropractors, etc, behave ethically with their massage therapists and pay them fairly, some few do not.
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Gordon, it happens to me all the time - getting someone on the table who has come to me as a last resort instead of a first one. It certainly is frustrating!!
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