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Knot in a muscle
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Ok one problem for me , in order for me to really show you what I know or think or whatever, I'd actually have to be talking too you in person.. I can just give you this advice..Its good though... ( STOP THINKING, about what you are feeling, and just FEEL) . Also you are a muscle...Ive learned a lot from just massaging myself.( without thinking, just feeling). Here is an example. and its a true one.. A few years ago I herniated a disc. Not Good...Ok, well Im fine now...Lets say Im in a room of herniated disc experts..Various Doctors and Scientists...But unless anyone of them ever had a herniated disc...I'm the only expert in there. For now, just dont worry about what they are. Hard to answer. From my point of view, it doesn't matter.
Therese Schwartz said:
Any thoughts on why some muscle knots "thunk" and some "crunch"? I was taught that the crunchy stuff was lactic acid but that myth has been busted. The only thing I could come up with that made sense was that it's the difference between the muscle belly and the bony attachments. Would love some discussion on this!
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Permalink Reply by Jody C. Hutchinson on
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Here are two books that will help explain muscle cells and sliding filament theory of contraction. Very heavy science but after reading it in bits it will make sense.
Guyton's Medical Physiology. Saunders Publishing.
Exercise Physiology by McArdle, et. al. Williams & Williams Publishing.
As far as knots that "crunch"- most likely are adhesions. Fibroblast activity lays down collagen fibers; feels like sand to coco pebbles. And yes, there are lots of adhesions at the muscle-tendon junction.
Happy Friday 13th.
jh
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Permalink Reply by Dawn Lewis on -
I have owned and operated several massage schools. I have taught every level of massage, including neuromuscular therapy. I agree that most schools do not provide therapists with enough information, but I also know that the basic education we receive from any massage school, because it is only 500 to 1000 hours will be lacking. Most of our knowledge comes from touching bodies, and realizing that they all react differently to what we do, and that we all need continuing education. I agree with Gordon's explanation of what a trigger point is, however, I would dispute the premise that 85% of pain is directly caused by trigger points. I started out as a neuromuscular therapist, but soon I found that the work was limited. I developed, taught extensively, and use a system called SMRT, a series of passive contractions that melt trigger points without pain, realign joints, and restore muscle tissue to homeostasis. I have found that traditional neuromuscular therapy does not go far enough, loses some of its gains due to pain caused, and does not have a stimulating effect on the lymphatic system. While it stimulates circulation, the added benefit of lymphatic stimulation takes the healing in the area to an entirely new place. Sticking with the trigger point aspect, let's look at infraspinatus, which is a haven for trigger points. Yesterday, I was working on a client who has injured both shoulders in the past three months. The left, according to an MRI, is a supraspinatus tear, the right appears to be a partial tear of the tendon of the long head of biceps. On the left, his tricep muscle is adhered to the humerus, as well as being adhered to both teres major and minor. This has created a misalignment of the shoulder joint and an overall tension in the shoulder, including knots and trigger points in infraspinatus. After releasing the ligaments of the shoulder joint and getting some natural realignment, I did a 30 second position to release infraspinatus and teres minor. In that 30 seconds, the tension came down by 80%, the tenderness was almost gone, and the trigger points were taken care of. While I agree that trigger points result from any break in homeostasis, I think alignment issues, which are a major cause of trigger points and knots, have to be addressed or the trigger points and knots will simply reoccur after the massage. And while I also agree that no one system can do everything, what I like about SMRT is that it enhances every other modality I use.
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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Dawn, how do I learn about SMRT? It sounds like it would support the modalities I already use (massage, CranioSacral Therapy and MFR). I really like the idea of resolving issues without causing pain to the client (whenever possible); it's one of my governing philosophies.
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Permalink Reply by Dawn Lewis on
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It's funny you should ask, Therese, because I recently received approval from the NCB for CE's on our first DVD. This DVD covers shoulder, axilla, ribcage, and upper back, and is available at our website, www.efullcircle.com, for a limited time at $125. This lowered price is due to some minor production issues, but the info is solid, and the DVD is approved for 24 CE's. We are working now on our second DVD, head and neck, with SMRT cranial sacral therapy. I too do cranial sacral, and I love the stuff. I have found that SMRT really takes it to a whole new level. And I too love working with less pain for the client and less stress on my body, its what has kept me in this business for 16 years with no physical issues.
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Less stress on my body sounds fantastic! I have my own issues (don't we all!) and am sore almost all the time. Thanks for the link! I will look into it in the very new future. I'm getting ready for my 4th CranioSacral class (SomatoEmotional Release 2) next week so when I get back I'll look into this some more. It would be so easy to overwhelm myself with information! This sounds like exactly the thing for me. Thanks Dawn!
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Haha !!! This is one of my first threads in here( 2011 ). When I first discovered this site, several years ago, there were several threads with a lot of intense arguments going on. Some of them quite vicious. A lot of personal insults. Later on, in a thread, I myself got accused of damaging the minds of young people.
All those people that were arguing so heatedly got so fed up they just left the site and never came back. And it's too bad, because they were all quite intelligent.
Anyway, this is the first time I started talking about trigger points, and thought it would be interesting to re-post. There is also a good explanation on what a trigger point is. I got all that information out of Travells book. " Myofascial Pain Syndrome the Trigger Point Manual" A couple people on that thread are still around. - Attachments:
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IMG_0167.PNG, 691 KB
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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on
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I wasn't involved with this forum in 2011. So, permit me to reply to the original question, "What is a knot in a muscle?"
Knots-- noticeable, palpable knots-- can be cysts, soft or hard as a stone; can be a due to bruising and blood pooling in the tissue. And, hardly least, knots can be due to trigger point contracture. I agree with you and Travell that in the presence of a calcium "bath" surrounding the muscle motor endplate that isn't reabsorbed properly, a contracted muscle can't relax.
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Gary. Haha, You did comment on this thread. Go back one page. Lol.
Gary W Addis, LMT said:I wasn't involved with this forum in 2011. So, permit me to reply to the original question, "What is a knot in a muscle?"
Knots-- noticeable, palpable knots-- can be cysts, soft or hard as a stone; can be a due to bruising and blood pooling in the tissue. And, hardly least, knots can be due to trigger point contracture. I agree with you and Travell that in the presence of a calcium "bath" surrounding the muscle motor endplate that isn't reabsorbed properly, a contracted muscle can't relax.
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