Massage Insurance Billing

Comment

Comment by Vivian Madison Mahoney on February 8, 2010 at 11:48pm

Ok all, let's calm down. I will clarify, I said they could make about $200.00 on the first patient session. How many of you know that you just might be able to bill for an initial evaluation, if done properly?

No, all insurers do not pay for this. How many know that the average initial evaluation (for insurers that will pay it) is about $120.00 for a massage therapist? And as someone mentioned, the $120.00 is about the average a massage therapists gets reimbursed for a one hour session in some cases.

I know there are those who, as Nancy said, who overcharge up the gazoo, but that is why I am able to help the defense attorneys and fraud divisions for some insurance companies who call on me for consultations and testimony on a nationwide basis. I am considered an "expert witness" for those in the industry who are trying to weed out the frauds and those who take advantage of insurance companies and ultimately the patients.

This is NOT meant to sound egotistical . That is not me. It is so very difficult to be one person trying to reach the multitude of therapists who need, want and deserve the truth about insurance billing.

I have had 20 years of training massage therapists across the nation and have loved every minute of helping others to build their businesses to successful levels, getting emails and phone calls of praise has been as rewarding as someone telling me what a great massage I gave them. And I know you all know how that feels, don't you?

As I always say, I cannot be expected to teach a seminar in this or any short message.

I just hope that you can trust me because I have billed insurance since 1984 and very successfully with over 172 physicians referring from all specialities, with over $500,000 in yearly income and on and on.

Some insurance cases are better at reimbursing than others. All states so far have some insurance companies that have been reimbursing massage therapists when one knows what and how to bill. There is no state that I cannot tell you something about because I keep up on all of them. However some states change rules, some states are better than others and I have key contacts in some states like Diana Thompson in WA who has been willing to share her knowledge as she did in the seminar I just presented in OR. in Oct.

By the way, an LMT who first took my class in TN took it over again in OR just to share with the class how she was so excited that from the TN class and materials she was able, in less than 2 years, to build her business in WA to having 12 therapists working for her and all with insurance cases!!

The Kentucky Board of Massage has honored me with their confidence by requesting that I be their presenter for the 12 CE's on insurance billing, taxes and marketing that they are offering to all their KY State Licensed LMT's. Although I have presented 2 times in KY I never present again without research to get all the updated state specific information to be sure I am not misleading anyone on any subject regarding insurance, in any state.

I work hard and daily to keep up on all aspects of health care, health care reform and insurance in all states. I know for instance that Ohio Workers' Compensation pays $35.80 per unit (fifteen minutes) for manual therapy. I also know that FL pays only $19.00 per unit for massage therapy 97124.

I know that in MN a massage therapist was refused the manual therapy code because she was not a PT, I helped her win her case as in many cases across the nation. This is because I know the ropes. I have suffered the mistakes and errors and time consumed in the learning process. I have worked hard to make it easy for all others, because I do not want to ever see anyone have to go through what I went through to learn because NO Massage Therapist billed insurance when I started. But while I am willing to go the extra mile to help, I cannot be expected to give all the information away for free. One has to invest in their future and I happen to have the materials that can make it happen for those willing to invest.

I have seen soooo many LMT's trying to take the short cuts, they get a code, a form or some information from a massage therapist who 'heard it from the grapevine" or who had never billed themselves and then think they can bill insurance for a living. There are legalities, rules, laws, guidelines, codes that can and cannot be used, there are types of insurance cases we can and cannot accept and so on. To know all of this is like having a boat to cross the river. Ok, I am here to help you steer the boat but you have to purchase that boat first, if you know what I mean.

As always, if I can help call or email me: Vivianmadison@aol.com
865-436-3573 or if you are wanting to jump on the bandwagon with me for changes in health care where we see discrimination taking place, please send an email to Vivmahoney@aol.com and in subject line, simply type: I'M IN.

By discrimination I am talking about the insurance companies who say, "we pay for massage but we only pay a PT. MD or DC but not a massage therapist." We have to put a stop to this!!

Comment by Ann Ross on February 8, 2010 at 10:10pm

No problem, Jan. There is always more to learn when it comes to billing insurance. I only know what I know :) I'm sure Vivian can help clarify. She is the queen of massage insurance billing :)

Comment by Jan Seeley, LMP on February 8, 2010 at 10:03pm

To Ann Ross. I've never known anyone legitimately getting that either. To quote Vivian Mahoney "If my making a living selling a manual to a massage therapist for $109.90 including S&H is too expensive to help them make over twice that amount in the VERY FIRST PATIENT SESSION if and when properly billed, then tell what I should be doing from here on out?" So I guess I should have directed my question to her, huh...

Comment by Darcy Neibaur on February 8, 2010 at 5:33pm

In the state of Florida, an LMT billed my insurance company and was paid $5000.00 on a pip claim for sessions he did not do. Just for the record the attorney was contacted and the LMT lost his job as well as the secretary who was forging prescriptions for him. He was billing my insurance company $50 for each unit which is 15 minutes and was paid that amount. He made more than the Chiropractor.

Comment by Julie Onofrio on February 8, 2010 at 5:26pm

Just to clarify further- my comment about it being too expensive should have been that it may be too expensive for some and finding out more info about whether or not you can bill in your state or what is involved can help you to make a more informed decision about whether or not you want to pursue taking classes or not. I did not say that anyone who purchased the product is being taken advantage of in any way.

I just think that more can be done to get insurance billing to be accepted in other states and this is a good place to begin - getting ideas and input.
Julie

Comment by Ann Ross on February 8, 2010 at 5:24pm

Jan,
I have never known an MT to be able to receive that much. While an MT might be billing that much, I can't ever see getting reimbursed for that much. It's my understanding that $120 is the highest we will be reimbursed through PIP. L&I used to pay that in WA state, however it has since been reduced to, I think $88. Also, the highest I have ever seen private insurance pay is $100. If you find any information on that I'd love to know. Seems a little excessive to me. :)
Best,
Ann

Comment by Jan Seeley, LMP on February 8, 2010 at 5:18pm

OK...I just want to know where a massage therapist can make over $200 in one session. Is that in a place where the therapist is not contracted? I make nowhere near that in a session. That seems pretty outrageous, IMO. What can you possibly bill for that amounts to that much?

Comment by Darcy Neibaur on February 8, 2010 at 5:17pm

Vivian thank you for being who you are and for doing what you do for all of us.

Comment by Julie Onofrio on February 8, 2010 at 2:17pm

My apologizes Vivian... I was just reacting to another post saying that you would help anyone and everyone which is fine but I also think that we can help each other on a local level and it is good to mentor others and be mentored by others.

Even if you take your online class there are still very intricate details that only apply to each state like here in WA there are so many things to know that are different than most states because we are billing PPO's and are under contract.

Your products are the best in the profession - no doubt about that and yes I do promote them which is why I also started this thread here but I also do think that billing insurance can help many massage therapists stay afloat and even build a successful business doing ins. billing.

Julie

Comment by Vivian Madison Mahoney on February 8, 2010 at 11:47am

I have read through some of the comments and was shocked to see that Julie (group creator) has commented that Vivian's insurance products were "too expensive".

I am so sorry but I just have to defend myself and the thousands of massage practitioners who have purchased my materials or who took my seminars.

Since 1990 I raised my basic, no materials included, 6 CE seminars from $145.00 to $169.00 or $189.00 depending on distance.

Next I am sorry to hear that those thousands of massage practitioners who spent $109.90 including shipping, were taken advantage of by me. I thought and still think that if a massage therapist wants to work in a field with medical, legal and insurance professionals that this cost of doing business to learn to do it right is not "expensive". What I was always taught, is that ignorance is what is expensive.

Adding also that anyone who has purchased my materials from www.massageinsurancebilling.com or whom have taken my seminars gets a year of free consultation. To this date anyone can tell you I have NEVER charged for consultation not only to those who have purchased products from me years and years ago but not for ANYONE, NOT EVER!!

Thousands of hours of my FREE time have gone into helping massage therapists in the arena of insurance billing, practice building and other massage related business questions.

Not only do I assist Massage Professionals, but MD's, DC's, Insurance Auditing and Insurance Fraud Divisions. So do we really need to get all the massage therapists involved giving opinions who have had problems or do we want them to ask questions to help them prevent delays, denials, reductions and losses?

If my making a living selling a manual to a massage therapist for $109.90 including S&H is too expensive to help them make over twice that amount in the VERY FIRST PATIENT SESSION if and when properly billed, then tell what I should be doing from here on out?

Preventing delays, denials, reductions and losses, that is what I am all about!!

And to end my comments, I think it is only fair to note that Julie has earned more from my Affiliate Program than anyone else. Over $1,300.00, in this past few months on my "too expensive" products.

Forgive me if I sound angry but that was such a slap in the face, I was angry and I felt the need to defend myself and those who believe in me.

Vivian

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